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 Post subject: Re: Robb Report article on Piper Mirage
PostPosted: 31 May 2014, 23:57 
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Joined: 08/01/11
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Location: In between the opioid and marijuana epidemics
Aircraft: 182, A36TC
I like the Malibu and the mirage. The newer mirages have poor useful loads. The engines in both airplanes had many issues. A lot were related pilot error. The TC models from Beech did not have the same teething pains. The mirage also has a low maneuvering speed.

I really like the Malibu/mirage, but it does have its drawbacks.

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Ryan Holt CFI

"Paranoia and PTSD are requirements not diseases"


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 Post subject: Re: Robb Report article on Piper Mirage
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2014, 07:52 
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Joined: 08/30/10
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Location: Kingston, NY (20N)
Aircraft: 1985 Bonanza F33A
Just a nit, bit the Matrix/Mirage and Meridian do not have the same airframe. The wing is different, the win attach points are different, and the entire tail is different.

Also, a loss of an engine will not result in explosive decompression, but rather a slow bleed of the pressurization over several minutes which is still enough time to glide to lower altitude. There is a reason a high altitude endorsement is required to fly one of these aircraft.


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 Post subject: Re: Robb Report article on Piper Mirage
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2014, 19:55 
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Joined: 02/19/13
Posts: 67
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Location: Richmond, IN
Aircraft: Legend Cub
I've owned (2) Baron's. I own one now (D55) but also own a 2006 Meridian. It's the most capable, fastest airplane I've ever owned and I love it. The thought of limiting my practical altitude to 16k or so in the Baron is what I don't like. What I don't love about the Meridian is the $2500 or so a month I have to spend on just insurance and annuals. If I'm not using it I feel like I'm wasting hard earned $$$. I keep thinking just fly when the weather is not as much of a factor for 1/2 the price in a late model Baron 58 or 15% of the cost in this nice old D55.

No whining on the yacht...........................


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 Post subject: Re: Robb Report article on Piper Mirage
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2014, 20:00 
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Joined: 08/01/11
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Location: In between the opioid and marijuana epidemics
Aircraft: 182, A36TC
Username Protected wrote:
I've owned (2) Baron's. I own one now (D55) but also own a 2006 Meridian. It's the most capable, fastest airplane I've ever owned and I love it. The thought of limiting my practical altitude to 16k or so in the Baron is what I don't like. What I don't love about the Meridian is the $2500 or so a month I have to spend on just insurance and annuals. If I'm not using it I feel like I'm wasting hard earned $$$. I keep thinking just fly when the weather is not as much of a factor for 1/2 the price in a late model Baron 58 or 15% of the cost in this nice old D55.

No whining on the yacht...........................



That is really funny. I have another saying. "Whining while in a Mercedes always falls on deaf ears."

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Ryan Holt CFI

"Paranoia and PTSD are requirements not diseases"


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 Post subject: Re: Robb Report article on Piper Mirage
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2014, 22:15 
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Joined: 12/19/11
Posts: 3308
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Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
Username Protected wrote:
I've owned (2) Baron's. I own one now (D55) but also own a 2006 Meridian. It's the most capable, fastest airplane I've ever owned and I love it. The thought of limiting my practical altitude to 16k or so in the Baron is what I don't like. What I don't love about the Meridian is the $2500 or so a month I have to spend on just insurance and annuals. If I'm not using it I feel like I'm wasting hard earned $$$.


That's the very same reason a friend of mine sold his Mirage. He could afford it but simply felt that he was just throwing too much $$ away every year for the privelege of having it wait for him in the hanger.

I love both the Mirage and Meridian as well but feel that I know enough about them to rule them out from a financial commitment standpoint.

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Don Coburn
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2004 SR22 G2


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 Post subject: Re: Robb Report article on Piper Mirage
PostPosted: 01 Jun 2014, 23:05 
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Joined: 11/26/13
Posts: 222
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Aircraft: Phenom 100
Mirage is very nice and capable, but I just prefer not to have a prop in my face. Baron is good all around choice for me...

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Robb Report article on Piper Mirage
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2014, 09:49 
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Joined: 05/04/14
Posts: 119
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Aircraft: Lancair evolution
440 pounds with full fuel? That's two normal obese people nowadays no golf clubs no sandwiches...
My evolution has 1000 lbs with full fuel, burns 28 gallons/hr 6.5 psi and goes 1300 miles non stop maintenance issues have been minimal and you can fit a passenger with a bmi of 40 in the back seat.

I was offered a partnership in a turbo piper piper jet and being 6' 6" had to be extracted
from the cabin and our initial trip from Augsburg to budapest had to be cancelled due to the copilot not being able to fit in, and I really wanted to fly that sucker.


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 Post subject: Re: Robb Report article on Piper Mirage
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2014, 10:27 
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Joined: 01/16/11
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Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
I looked at the Mirage before I bought my 58. Nice airplane. Folks seem to test out the glide on the Malibu a little more often than I would like. Also they seemed to get a top overhaul at 1,000 hours, I'm sure because you are asking a lot out of that engine. Air con, pressurization, altitude, turbo-charging.

I asked myself

Which airplanes glides better, the Malibu or the Baron?

Do I want to glide or would I prefer to take my bad engine to the runway of my choosing.

Is it cheaper to overhaul two IO550's or one a TIO-540 (including props).

I think Robb Report got it wrong.....Baron's better.....

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 Post subject: Re: Robb Report article on Piper Mirage
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2014, 10:41 
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Joined: 06/02/10
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Location: KHRL
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I was in Austin at Signature a couple of weeks ago waiting for Dale Faulkner to buzz over from KBMQ to pick me up to get the plane after annual. There was a pretty new Meridien on the ramp waiting for someone. I check the N number on flightaware and it was scheduled to got to albuquerque with a stop at Midland (fuel I assume). They were planned for low 20's alt. The pilot finally had his 4 pax show up and they departed. I did a non-stop flight plan for the same route at low teens. I would have beaten him by almost 30 minutes carrying the same load. Probably not always the case. When you zoom up to the flight levels, stay in cruise for a bit and then start coming down for fuel not much later, it seems like it would get annoying to have to stop so often for fuel. Maybe they were in go-fast mode too so YMMV :).


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 Post subject: Re: Robb Report article on Piper Mirage
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2014, 11:04 
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Joined: 08/31/11
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Location: Somerville, TN (KFYE)
Aircraft: RV-8
I have lusted after a Mirage for years...every time I buy a plane, I drool over the ads and fantasize about cruising along in the flight levels in pressurized comfort. Then I start reminding myself about all the research I've done on costs, having to up size my hangar because of the wingspan, and I just clunk back down to earth and realize I already own the plane that is most practical for me right now. I have tip tanks on my Bo, can fly up to seven hours if I want, I have six seats, barn doors, all glass panel, and a lot of experience in the plane. If I TN the plane (and I can see that in my future), I will get another 30 knots TAS and the flexibility to go high if I want. Bottom line, as much as I'd LOVE to fly the Mirage, it would be a foolish financial decision to buy one. I guess I'm destined to always own a Bonanza...


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 Post subject: Re: Robb Report article on Piper Mirage
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2014, 13:02 
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Joined: 08/01/11
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Location: In between the opioid and marijuana epidemics
Aircraft: 182, A36TC
Baron vs Mirage is a good comparison.

1) Load carrying-Baron hands down. Much more room for baggage and the useful load to carrying it.

2) Speed-A wash. Baron faster down low. Mirage faster up high.

3) Efficiency- A wash. Baron burns more in the initial climb. At cruise the Baron could actually burn less fuel LOP for slightly less speed.

4) Engine overhaul-Just about a wash when you include prop overhauls.

5) Range-Mirage wins if you are willing to sit in it a long time and you do not run the baron LOP. If the Baron is run LOP you can actually go farther. The seats in the Baron are more comfortable IMO.

6) Pressurization-Game changer. Mirage has an indisputable advantage. For some the argument begins and ends here. For others they do not want to feel they have to fly high.

In the end I think the Baron has the edge. The second engine makes up my mind.

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Ryan Holt CFI

"Paranoia and PTSD are requirements not diseases"


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 Post subject: Re: Robb Report article on Piper Mirage
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2014, 13:11 
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Username Protected wrote:
6) Pressurization-Game changer. Mirage has an indisputable advantage. For some the argument begins and ends here. For others they do not want to feel they have to fly high.


Why not compare to 58p then?

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 Post subject: Re: Robb Report article on Piper Mirage
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2014, 14:32 
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Joined: 04/16/12
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Location: Keller, TX (KFTW)
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Username Protected wrote:
6) Pressurization-Game changer. Mirage has an indisputable advantage. For some the argument begins and ends here. For others they do not want to feel they have to fly high.


Why not compare to 58p then?


You would. And if cabin-class space for passengers wasn't a consideration, a P-Baron would be a fair choice/alternative. Don't need pressurization, then the smoking fast Colemill B55s move up the ladder.

But for those that own or are considering a Malibu/Mirage, the cabin is one of the most important features. I know that's the case for me. Along with pressurization, 200+ knot speed, FIKI and A/C, all of which you can get in with a 58P. But you can't get the cabin. For me, that's a deal breaker.

As was said earlier, buy the airplane for the mission. Perfect for me would be a 414 or Tim's 601P. Better yet would be a Pilatus or TBM850. But I can't afford the latter, and could only justify the operating cost of the former if I had a business use or a much larger flying budget than I have right now.

The Malibu/Mirage seems to strikes a good balance of cost and capability. The question is can you find one that doesn't eat you alive maintenance wise? The owners I've talked to say yes you can. You just need to be very careful and selective in what you buy.
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 Post subject: Re: Robb Report article on Piper Mirage
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2014, 19:51 
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Location: In between the opioid and marijuana epidemics
Aircraft: 182, A36TC
58P has twice the fuel burn and less of a cabin. A 340 looks more appealing. At least you get some extra speed to go with larger cabin. 414 is too slow. It is about the same speed as the mirage with twice the fuel flow.

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Ryan Holt CFI

"Paranoia and PTSD are requirements not diseases"


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 Post subject: Re: Robb Report article on Piper Mirage
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2014, 20:09 
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Joined: 12/19/08
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Tough to beat a Mirage, but I think it takes $300k+ to get a well maintained example. Take what the money is worth and the fact that you would most likely want to insure a $300k+ investment and you really have to consider a 58P or a Duke that you could exclude the insurance and save that money for the extra maintenance. $100k gets you one heck of a good Duke. Buys a lot of fuel. I think a big diesel in the Mirage would make it the best piston single in the sky.

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