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18 Jul 2024, 03:07 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Low Time Citation 501 Single Pilot
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2024, 11:45 
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Joined: 07/16/12
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Location: KHEF & KCPS
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As a 3 month Citation 501 owner, I will echo what others have said. They occcupy a really great niche for the low utilization owner operator. I'm grateful to Mike T for helping me with acquisition and for ongoing support. That said, he is not a single point of failure in the ecosystem. Just an extremely nice-to-have. The aircraft is part of a line that ended production in this century and shares parts commonality with many other aircraft produced by Cessna. There is a "Team Legacy" at Textron that is reponsive. They are not in the same league as out of production turbines built by Cessna or Piper. Similar to King Airs, lots of people have worked on them and are not afraid to do so today.

I will commit the cardinal sin of legacy Citation owners and admit that if I had the capital I would have gone with a Mustange in a heart beat. But the efficiency of that plaform is not, for me, offset by the initial price tag. I readily admit that the 501 is not for everyone, especially if you have a high utilization mission, capital available, or can take advantage of depreciation.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Low Time Citation 501 Single Pilot
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2024, 12:02 
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Username Protected wrote:
Yes, some of the oddball serial numbers Usually mean the airplane was exported as a 500 and then got converted to a 501 via a paperwork change


Mike- where is s/n 350 (and above)? looks like sometime vintage 1983, but I cannot figure it out from the table.

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Low Time Citation 501 Single Pilot
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2024, 17:39 
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Joined: 05/05/09
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Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
Username Protected wrote:
Yes, some of the oddball serial numbers Usually mean the airplane was exported as a 500 and then got converted to a 501 via a paperwork change


Mike- where is s/n 350 (and above)? looks like sometime vintage 1983, but I cannot figure it out from the table.


I own an 83 and it’s serial number 325 on the 501.

It gets real confusing there are 501 serial numbers and then there are unit numbers that are added onto the first 500 produced. All maintenance is off of unit number

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Low Time Citation 501 Single Pilot
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2024, 19:46 
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Joined: 05/05/09
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Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
SOLD


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 Post subject: Re: SOLD Low Time Citation 501 Single Pilot
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2024, 20:09 
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Joined: 01/01/10
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Location: Roseburg, Oregon
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Awesome. Congrats to you and the new owner.

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 Post subject: Re: SOLD Low Time Citation 501 Single Pilot
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2024, 12:45 
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Joined: 04/26/14
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona
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Tarver —

Congrats on the sale! Did this have TR’s? Were TR’s optional or standard on the 501s?

Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: SOLD Low Time Citation 501 Single Pilot
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2024, 14:16 
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The photos show it with TRs

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 Post subject: Re: SOLD Low Time Citation 501 Single Pilot
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2024, 11:14 
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Joined: 11/06/20
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Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
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TRs were optional.


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 Post subject: Re: SOLD Low Time Citation 501 Single Pilot
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2024, 13:55 
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Username Protected wrote:
TRs were optional.


can TRs be added to a legacy jet that doesn't have them? or is it cost-prohibitive?

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 Post subject: Re: SOLD Low Time Citation 501 Single Pilot
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2024, 14:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
TRs were optional.


can TRs be added to a legacy jet that doesn't have them? or is it cost-prohibitive?

I doubt it would pencil out. Besides changes to the engines themselves you have to modify the quadrant and panel to add the various controls and indicators.

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 Post subject: Re: SOLD Low Time Citation 501 Single Pilot
PostPosted: 23 May 2024, 01:24 
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Why are these 501s so relatively cost effective to acquire? Warning, Total ignorant Mooney pilot here! Capability relative to apparent cost seems like a no-brained in terms of moving up!


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 Post subject: Re: SOLD Low Time Citation 501 Single Pilot
PostPosted: 23 May 2024, 07:15 
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Joined: 12/17/13
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
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Why are these 501s so relatively cost effective to acquire? Warning, Total ignorant Mooney pilot here! Capability relative to apparent cost seems like a no-brained in terms of moving up!


Because they burn a lot of fuel. Also, they will take you out to the woodshed should you ever need to actually overhaul the engines. Then the numbers not only don't work, they're downright scary. This whole value play comes from running them over TBO part 91 and being able to pass the runout on to someone else at the end of it.

The ugly-as-sin design is just extra gravy. ;) :stir:

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 Post subject: Re: SOLD Low Time Citation 501 Single Pilot
PostPosted: 24 May 2024, 16:35 
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Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
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Why are these 501s so relatively cost effective to acquire? Warning, Total ignorant Mooney pilot here! Capability relative to apparent cost seems like a no-brained in terms of moving up!

So I won't comment on his clearly poor taste, I will tag onto Adam's post. In the piston world, people start getting twitchy when engines are run beyond TBO. In the jet world, this is less of a concern, at least to a certain cohort of owner operators. To be clear, Inspections are required for everyone - someone looks at the thing and replaces any worn out parts. The big ones for jets are the Hot Section Inspection or HSI. On the JT15D-1A on the 501, this has to be done every 1,750 hours. Overhauls are replacing everything, regardless of condition, to make it like new. Overhauls for the JT15D are specified at 3,500 hours. Overhauls are mandatory for Part 135 but not for Part 91. So when a legacy Citation is facing overhaul, it is often sold to a Part 91 operator who can do an HSI and keep flying it. Also, these planes are getting older and the charter operators and folks who sit in the back want newer, faster, more fuel efficient, longer range, etc. So these birds trickle down to the owner operator market and we scoop them up.

Part of Tarver's Gently Used Citations is that he does an HSI before selling. For most people, this is 15 years of flying before having to do another HSI. That is a lot of flying, for some people it may be the last airplane they buy.

And Adam is correct, they burn a lot of fuel. However, jets in general are not stingy (the faster you push something through a fluid, the more energy it takes). Even with the latest Williams-powered birds you would need to fly a LOT to make up for the increased costs for engine programs and such just on fuel efficiency.

Finally, like other legacy airplanes, they are usually begging for an avionics upgrade which are not cheap. Personally, I could not imagine flying STARs and DPs single pilot without glass. I'm sure it can be done, but I wouldn't want to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: SOLD Low Time Citation 501 Single Pilot
PostPosted: 24 May 2024, 18:46 
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Joined: 11/25/16
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Location: 2IS
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Username Protected wrote:
The ugly-as-sin design is just extra gravy. ;) :stir:


Not all of us have the stroke to afford a wheezy, faded pink Commander. :shrug:


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 Post subject: Re: SOLD Low Time Citation 501 Single Pilot
PostPosted: 24 May 2024, 23:22 
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Listen, my post was a little bit tongue in cheek as I'm doing exactly the same MO in my old antique, praying it all holds together. But I've also recently priced a few things out for turbines, and let's just say that inflation hasn't just affected eggs. I was kinda shocked at the latest HSI averages.

Because all aircraft owners are somehow allergic to disclosing true costs - from another thread on here from 2019 - one can glean that a JT15D was then $500K+ to overhaul, which is prob closer to $650K today. Per side. And a HSI is about $150K per side. If that doesn't faze you, great.

Swapping on an older engine on that's got some time left on it is of course a possibility, but nothing is for free. I'm guessing an older JT15D with 1000hrs left on it, is prob in the $180K+ region.

And John, if it makes it feel less personal, I think the Commander is ugly too. :thumbup:

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