In this discussion, it's a matter of perspective, based on your age and qualifications: For a fifty-something with X experience vs a sixty-to-seventy something with identical quals the insurance price difference for the same aircraft type will probably be substantial. Therefore the price paid by Mr Braunfels for the Citation may very well be cheaper than, say, I don't know, a C-421 or similar. The insurance industry is adapting badly to an extremely fluid and dynamic aircraft ownership evolution, where young rich guys are buying and wrecking expensive machinery and old rich guys are doing the same. Throw in yet another hurricane or tornado and here we are with a lot of expensive twisted aluminum. I'm not sticking up for the underwriters here, but I'm afraid that this is the current market, and like all of us I like it not.

As far as what mission-length is rational to say; "We'll take the jet!", I'll say this: I regularly drive 250sm (160nm flight) to check on a rental property, and between fuel and bathroom stops it's a five hour slog. If I owned the beautiful jet for sale in this thread, and it's parked within one hour of my house, I'm taking that, each and every time.

It's becoming more and more logical by the day.

Turning 72 this year . Insurance premiums on my 550 haven’t changed in the last 4 years .

Compared to a newer SETP (which I believe is the thread to which you are referring) it would be, due to the difference in hull value.

Wow that's clean!

Don't forget to normalize for the lower price of Jet-A vs 100LL!

It ruins you over time. I'm to the point where if I have a trip beyond 50nm, I take the Mustang. However, I also have the benefit of a 50% lower fuel consumption compared to a 501.

No question the newer engines are more efficient. But they are also a LOT more expensive to purchase (you're looking at $2M for a Mustang), plus at the risk of incurring Chip's wrath, there are engine program costs that have to be paid on the newer planes. JT15D's definitely drink a lot of fuel, but everything else is very reasonable. Engines can be repaired cheaply by independent shops, Textron offers a factory low utilization maintenance program (LUMP) that moves your Phase 1-4 (equivalent to a piston annual) from every 2 years to every 3 years and your Phase 5 (heavy inspection - interior comes out, etc) from every 3 years to every 6 years. I just went through a Phase 1-4 this past summer and it was $17k. We found a few things - paint touch ups on a few spots of corrosion (on the flaps - likely a rock kicked up and chipped the paint and then moisture got in there), some pressurization system ductwork needed to be replaced, some fasteners that were worn out, topped off the hydraulic system, inspected a whole bunch of stuff.....

I am thrilled with my decision to buy a Tarver bird back in 2021. Come on in, the water's warm.....

how much turbine time required for insurance, i have 4500tt 1100 multi but no turbine time. is there an faa time required number of hours for single pilot operation

This airplane is Single Pilot per it's type certificate. So if you can pass the type rating single pilot you can fly the plane single pilot. I moved from an SR22 directly to a 501. I knew I was going to fly with a mentor pilot for a full year so I did my initial type rating as a crew (I had the "SIC REQUIRED" limitation on my type rating). Then at my next recurrent (1 year later) I took the check ride as a single pilot and passed, which removed the limitation from my rating.

Insurance is a whole other deal. You can pretty much count on some amount of mentor time (I believe 25-50 hours is common). Now in my experience, contract jet pilots are paid on a day rate so if you just want to get through the time you can plan a lot of long flights to get it over with. For me I wanted to have someone with me through all 4 seasons, different weather, different missions, etc. so I viewed it as an investment in my safety. I was also fortunate that my mentor had recently packaged out of SWA so he had a lot of time on his hands and was very available. That will obviously vary from town to town.

It ruins you over time. I'm to the point where if I have a trip beyond 50nm, I take the Mustang. However, I also have the benefit of a 50% lower fuel consumption compared to a 501.

BTW, where has Mike C been?

He's always either here non-stop in, or he takes 6 months off. He'll be back, prob when the next Citation V thread is ready to pop up.

What is a good proxy for the fuel costs using the various cards? Would you say it averages $4/gallon, $5/gallon or more right now? Is the cost of retail diesel a good proxy?

Without signing up for the fuel cards it is difficult to estimate.

does anyone have (and willing to share with me) the s/n lineage of the 501s? looking for s/n by year. it's for my own personal use- won't be published.

What is a good proxy for the fuel costs using the various cards? Would you say it averages $4/gallon, $5/gallon or more right now? Is the cost of retail diesel a good proxy?

Without signing up for the fuel cards it is difficult to estimate.