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28 Mar 2024, 10:15 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 08 May 2023, 22:51 
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Depends on the build as the wing and tail are critical. Anywhere from 67 knots to 75 knots. With that said, 70 knots with gear and flaps down power off is 4k per minute descent. You do not fly these planes slow. You fly them just like a jet. Spin one and it will be the last plane you spin.


Is that both the IV's and the IVP's? I heard the P's were widow makers but that the non-pressurized planes had fairly conventional flying characteristics.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 08 May 2023, 23:15 
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Username Protected wrote:
Depends on the build as the wing and tail are critical. Anywhere from 67 knots to 75 knots. With that said, 70 knots with gear and flaps down power off is 4k per minute descent. You do not fly these planes slow. You fly them just like a jet. Spin one and it will be the last plane you spin.


Is that both the IV's and the IVP's? I heard the P's were widow makers but that the non-pressurized planes had fairly conventional flying characteristics.


Stall speed should be lower with the non-P due to lower weight, but as mentioned earlier, a lot of their characteristics are variable based on build quality. Endless rounds of filling and sanding to eliminate pinholes in the finish can change the shape of the airfoils slightly, and add weight of course. The stall behavior is "exciting" to put it very mildly, and would likely not be certifiable even if the stall speed could be reduced to 61 knots or less per Part 23 requirements.

I used to lust after those when I was in college and even went to work for Lancair/Columbia as an intern and after college. I've learned a lot and surely grown more cautious in the ~28 years since then to the point that I would not fly one if it were given to me. YMMV of course! It remains one of the most beautiful planes ever conceived, but sadly it can bite you.

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 09 May 2023, 07:49 
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Joined: 06/18/11
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Aircraft: Lancair IV
Username Protected wrote:
Stall speed should be lower with the non-P due to lower weight, but as mentioned earlier, a lot of their characteristics are variable based on build quality. Endless rounds of filling and sanding to eliminate pinholes in the finish can change the shape of the airfoils slightly, and add weight of course. The stall behavior is "exciting" to put it very mildly, and would likely not be certifiable even if the stall speed could be reduced to 61 knots or less per Part 23 requirements.

It actually was certified. The Columbia 300/Cessna 400 is a Lancair ES. The ES has the same body tail and wing as the IV, but fixed gear instead of retract.

You need to get the gear up on quickly on takeoff, but not because of flight characteristics. You need to get it retracted because you can quickly accelerate above the gear retraction speed unless you maintain a very high nose angle/ROC. Since the gear retracts into the body, the gear doesn’t have much (any?) affect on airflow under the wing. Other than adding some drag, gear up or down has almost no affect on flying characteristics. It isn’t like a Bonanza or Baron where lowering the gear causes major changes in the airflow under the wing. If for example, you are staying in the pattern practicing landing, there is no reason to retract it. You pull power back quickly either way.

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 09 May 2023, 07:59 
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
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Every airplane design is a bundle of compromises. The Lancer compromises lots of things in the interest of speed. The factory built versions are good airplanes. I have flown them several times, but then, build quality is not the critical issue.

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 09 May 2023, 08:21 
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Username Protected wrote:
Stall speed should be lower with the non-P due to lower weight, but as mentioned earlier, a lot of their characteristics are variable based on build quality. Endless rounds of filling and sanding to eliminate pinholes in the finish can change the shape of the airfoils slightly, and add weight of course. The stall behavior is "exciting" to put it very mildly, and would likely not be certifiable even if the stall speed could be reduced to 61 knots or less per Part 23 requirements.

It actually was certified. The Columbia 300/Cessna 400 is a Lancair ES. The ES has the same body tail and wing as the IV, but fixed gear instead of retract.


This is a common perception, but 100% incorrect. The original idea was to certify the ES and only change what would make it easier to produce in a factory versus a garage, but the ES could not meet the flying qualities requirements for Part 23 either. The ES has a much larger wing and tail compared to the IV, and fixed gear. Stall speed of course was below 61 knots, but low speed behavior was deficient. This led to a complete redesign and the end result was the only common parts were the rudder pedal castings. The wing is very different, with different airfoils, and the fuselage is different as well. Yes, they look about the same in size/shape/layout, but they are completely different engineering designs.

(Sorry that I've contributed to derailing a for sale ad!)

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 09 May 2023, 09:39 
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Aircraft: Bonanza V35
Username Protected wrote:
Stall speed should be lower with the non-P due to lower weight, but as mentioned earlier, a lot of their characteristics are variable based on build quality. Endless rounds of filling and sanding to eliminate pinholes in the finish can change the shape of the airfoils slightly, and add weight of course. The stall behavior is "exciting" to put it very mildly, and would likely not be certifiable even if the stall speed could be reduced to 61 knots or less per Part 23 requirements.

It actually was certified. The Columbia 300/Cessna 400 is a Lancair ES. The ES has the same body tail and wing as the IV, but fixed gear instead of retract.

You need to get the gear up on quickly on takeoff, but not because of flight characteristics. You need to get it retracted because you can quickly accelerate above the gear retraction speed unless you maintain a very high nose angle/ROC. Since the gear retracts into the body, the gear doesn’t have much (any?) affect on airflow under the wing. Other than adding some drag, gear up or down has almost no affect on flying characteristics. It isn’t like a Bonanza or Baron where lowering the gear causes major changes in the airflow under the wing. If for example, you are staying in the pattern practicing landing, there is no reason to retract it. You pull power back quickly either way.


The ES has a completely different wing and tail and completely different flying qualities.

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 09 May 2023, 09:41 
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Username Protected wrote:
Depends on the build as the wing and tail are critical. Anywhere from 67 knots to 75 knots. With that said, 70 knots with gear and flaps down power off is 4k per minute descent. You do not fly these planes slow. You fly them just like a jet. Spin one and it will be the last plane you spin.


Is that both the IV's and the IVP's? I heard the P's were widow makers but that the non-pressurized planes had fairly conventional flying characteristics.



The reduced weight of the IV vs IVP makes it stall at a slower speed, but everything else is still the same. In he right hands the IV is a safe airplane. Bill H flew his IV around the world over both Poles with no de-ice. Amazing accomplishment.

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 09 May 2023, 11:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
It actually was certified. The Columbia 300/Cessna 400 is a Lancair ES. The ES has the same body tail and wing as the IV, but fixed gear instead of retract.


Same fuselage shape, but tail and wing are approximately 40% larger

When I parked my ES next to a IV, this size difference was VERY obvious


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 21 May 2023, 16:47 
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Joined: 05/16/23
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Aircraft: Glastar
Unfortunately I will be selling my beautiful Mustang II.
Very meticulously built show winner. 0-320 150hp
Flies great.
All documentation, build photos and logs, 2015, I believe started in 2009.
Only 130 hours on airframe and engine smoh.
Always hangered.
Asking $56k

Located at KCFE
Contact me buy email or text 952-200-5353


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 21 May 2023, 21:35 
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Joined: 01/24/19
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Company: Bullard Aviation Services, Inc
Location: Ormond Beach, FL (KOMN)
Aircraft: 1978 Bonanza A36
I think that the Lancair safety record has improved substantially after the LOBO “Lancair Owners & Builders Organization” established a training program and really started concentrating on pilot training.

I believe that Dr. Jeff Edwards who was a long time Bonanza owner - pilot and a long term BPPP instructor was very involved with establishing the current Lancair training program.

Jeff currently owns and flys a Lancair Evolution and prior to that he owned and flew a IV-P.

As with any experimental, or certified aircraft for that matter, the quality of build and maintenance is second only to PROPER training.

I personally have about 40 hours in a Lancair 360 and it was a very fun fast airplane to fly. I had a minimal check out in it, certainly not what I should have received, but I kept my approach speed high “always” and never had any issues. Things did happen a little faster than they do in an A36, F33A or a Mooney M20, or even in a Baron, but I see absolutely ZERO reason why any competent pilot with a couple hundred hours or more can’t safely operate a Lancair with PROPER training. The training is readily available through several instructors that are associated with LOBO.

Thanks, Frank

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2023, 20:39 
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What is your normal abeam tower, base, and final approach speeds


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2023, 18:38 
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What would it take to finish out panel and interior? 80K?


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2023, 19:02 
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Username Protected wrote:
What is your normal abeam tower, base, and final approach speeds


130, 120, 110 KIAS


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2023, 19:29 
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Joined: 02/25/21
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Aircraft: T210
Username Protected wrote:
Unfortunately I will be selling my beautiful Mustang II.
Very meticulously built show winner. 0-320 150hp
Flies great.
All documentation, build photos and logs, 2015, I believe started in 2009.
Only 130 hours on airframe and engine smoh.
Always hangered.
Asking $56k

Located at KCFE
Contact me buy email or text 952-200-5353


That’s a real beauty


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2023, 18:08 
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Company: Tupelo Aero, Inc
Location: Pontotoc , MS (22M)
Aircraft: 1959 Twin Beech 18
Username Protected wrote:
I had a friend that owned the IVP for a short time. It was blazingly fast. He asked me to go up with him a couple of times, but I told him I wouldn't get out of a coffin to get in one. :clap: His retort was that I needed to get me some "big girl panties". :eek:

I'm not judging those who chose to own one, but the risks are real according to accident reports. :bugeye:

Jg

He did say exactly that! They are great airplanes that tolerate no lack of attention to care or operation. It's just a complicated high performance airplane that does not tolerate low performance pilots .

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