banner
banner

29 Apr 2024, 10:26 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Greenwich AeroGroup (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2023, 20:42 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1198
Post Likes: +312
Location: 46U
Aircraft: C182
Username Protected wrote:
I think that the Lancair safety record has improved substantially after the LOBO “Lancair Owners & Builders Organization” established a training program and really started concentrating on pilot training.

I believe that Dr. Jeff Edwards who was a long time Bonanza owner - pilot and a long term BPPP instructor was very involved with establishing the current Lancair training program.

Jeff currently owns and flys a Lancair Evolution and prior to that he owned and flew a IV-P.

As with any experimental, or certified aircraft for that matter, the quality of build and maintenance is second only to PROPER training.

I personally have about 40 hours in a Lancair 360 and it was a very fun fast airplane to fly. I had a minimal check out in it, certainly not what I should have received, but I kept my approach speed high “always” and never had any issues. Things did happen a little faster than they do in an A36, F33A or a Mooney M20, or even in a Baron, but I see absolutely ZERO reason why any competent pilot with a couple hundred hours or more can’t safely operate a Lancair with PROPER training. The training is readily available through several instructors that are associated with LOBO.

Thanks, Frank


At the recent LOBO (Lancair), there was a presentation made that claimed the accident rate is overstated. When a Lancair crashed enough effort was always made to identify it as a Lancair. But this ID was difficult for the general population of aircraft as the builder could assign any name to the aircraft make & model. So the denominator was too small. Efforts to ID aircraft by pictures, etc. give a better fleet number. A claim was made that the accident rate is almost pseudo-Cirrus like. Hard to compare given accidents where the chute was pulled out of its limits… Or where the chute inspired overconfidence resulting in an accident.

The early 2-place Lancair also had a too small tail; with the larger tail, accident rate dropped significantly.

But I agree that training is key to reducing Lancair accidents. I believe that there has never been a LOBO trained pilot fatality. And there has not been an accident in the last 23 months… (this from a sometimes failing memory).

Best,

Tom


Top

 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2023, 21:10 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 12/30/18
Posts: 6
Post Likes: +3
Company: UAL
Username Protected wrote:
But I agree that training is key to reducing Lancair accidents. I believe that there has never been a LOBO trained pilot fatality.


Unfortunately that isn’t a true statement. I can think of a handful off the top of my head, the most recent being Neal Longwill.


Top

 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2023, 19:29 
Offline

 Profile




Joined: 09/08/23
Posts: 4
Aircraft: Bonanza
The Lancair is a beautiful plane and I have looked at the Columbia Lancairs as a compromise (i.e. Cessna - Lancair), but I am not to that level yet and I have over 400 hours in multiple singles. I am impressed with its speed and efficiency so maybe I will be a ride some day.


Top

 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2023, 19:29 
Offline

 Profile




Joined: 09/08/23
Posts: 4
Aircraft: Bonanza
The Lancair is a beautiful plane and I have looked at the Columbia Lancairs as a compromise (i.e. Cessna - Lancair), but I am not to that level yet and I have over 400 hours in multiple singles. I am impressed with its speed and efficiency so maybe I will be a ride some day.


Top

 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2023, 19:30 
Offline

 Profile




Joined: 09/08/23
Posts: 4
Aircraft: Bonanza
The Lancair is a beautiful plane and I have looked at the Columbia Lancairs as a compromise (i.e. Cessna - Lancair), but I am not to that level yet and I have over 400 hours in multiple singles. I am impressed with its speed and efficiency so maybe I will be a ride some day.


Top

 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2023, 20:36 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1198
Post Likes: +312
Location: 46U
Aircraft: C182
Username Protected wrote:
But I agree that training is key to reducing Lancair accidents. I believe that there has never been a LOBO trained pilot fatality.


Unfortunately that isn’t a true statement. I can think of a handful off the top of my head, the most recent being Neal Longwill.


I believe that was the statement made at the recent conference. Or what I thought I heard... Perhaps a better statement would be a pilot trained to the LOBO training syllabus with a LOBO approved instructor. I agree that LOBO trained pilot is a bit vague....

Will look into this and advise. Thanks

Best,

Tom

Top

 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 17 Oct 2023, 17:20 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1198
Post Likes: +312
Location: 46U
Aircraft: C182
Username Protected wrote:
But I agree that training is key to reducing Lancair accidents. I believe that there has never been a LOBO trained pilot fatality.


Unfortunately that isn’t a true statement. I can think of a handful off the top of my head, the most recent being Neal Longwill.


Josh, thanks for your perception on the situation. I have discussed my understanding with knowledgeable LOBO safety members and my statement seems correct. In the case of the pilot you mentioned, he did not complete LOBO training for an IFR rated pilot which includes an IPC. Re the accident flight, LOBO members flying the same route home strongly advised against takeoff due to weather and delayed their own takeoff by 6 hours.

If you would like to discuss this or other fatalities, Bob Patusek or Jeff Edwards of LOBO would be pleased to speak with you.

In speaking with Bob today, he confirmed my understanding and related that there have been approx. 400 LOBO trained pilots and they have 1/3 the accident rate of the general fleet. And in the last 12 engine-outs, all LOBO trained pilots walked away from the crash.

LOBO is getting their statistical act together and I would hope that they would publish findings to set the record straight.

Best,

Tom

Top

 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2023, 14:25 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 06/17/23
Posts: 16
Aircraft: V35
Has this been sold? If not, please advise!


Top

 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2023, 14:26 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 06/17/23
Posts: 16
Aircraft: V35
Has this been sold? If not, please advise!


Top

 Post subject: Re: FS: Lancair IV Kit
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2023, 13:49 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 06/15/18
Posts: 7
Post Likes: +2
Win (OP),

If you are still selling your plane and would like to access some of the LOBO resources, please contact me. I'm on the LOBO board and willing to help as needed. Also consider posting on the LOBO forum lancairlive.com.

To help shed light on LOBO training, it means the pilot went through the FAA FITS certified LOBO syllabus with a LOBO certified instructor. We keep very good training data on all of our training and work with the FAA and and insurance brokers to show the trend data.

Regarding Lancairs, there are several models and they are all designed for efficient speed. But they have different flying characteristics. The IV, like the one the OP is selling, has a smaller wing than the ES, which means it flies faster, but has a higher stall speed as previously stated in this thread. LOBO instructors do not recommend, nor teach stalls during checkouts or recurrency flights for the IV series aircraft.

The ES is the closest performance-wise to the Bonanza. I own an ES with the IO-550N and it trues out 175 LOP, and 182 ROP. They typically have a 57-60 kt stall (fully configured), and are flown 90 kt final turn, 85 kt final, and 80 kt over the numbers (landing flaps). They stall well and are predictable. Overall, they are very efficient and have a great useful load of around 1,300-1,400 lb.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.daytona.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.Marsh.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.camguard.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.puremedical-85x200.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.dbm.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.concorde.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.