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08 Dec 2021, 15:36 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Citation 501SP $550K FIRM
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2021, 13:21 
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Joined: 05/17/11
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Location: NYC
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Oh man....... :drool: Hold on, I need to call my sponsor.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Citation 501SP
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2021, 14:29 
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEVV
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Username Protected wrote:
And CAA FBOs _are_ required to document (and honor pricing on) all of their fees, so you can always easily find out what you're in for.

This is listed on the CAA web site.

However, many FBOs fail to honor the fee schedule they provided with their bid, which is a violation of their contract with CAA. I've had that happen numerous times. I then forward such instances to CAA HQ and they chase them down and get the problem fixed.

CAA is very useful, but there are a lot of recent CAA FBOs that are offering minimal discounts, like only $0.10 less than retail or other contract fuel. This is watering down the value of CAA. When the vote comes up for an FBO who offers an insignificant discount, I vote no because they aren't operating in the spirit of CAA.

CAA is exactly the sort of leverage owner operators have to exercise to counter the FBOs.

Mike C.

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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Citation 501SP $550K FIRM
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2021, 21:17 
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Posts: 235
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Location: Castlewood SD
Aircraft: Duke
Didn’t many any offense Michael on the question. Just was wondering why it was all apart. Maybe said it wrong. I like looking at your listings.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Citation 501SP
PostPosted: 18 Oct 2021, 15:12 
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Posts: 951
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Company: FractionalLaw.com
Location: Based ABE, Allentown, PA
Aircraft: King Air 350
Username Protected wrote:
CAA is very useful, but there are a lot of recent CAA FBOs that are offering minimal discounts, like only $0.10 less than retail or other contract fuel. This is watering down the value of CAA. When the vote comes up for an FBO who offers an insignificant discount, I vote no because they aren't operating in the spirit of CAA.
Mike C.


In the quest for an expanded FBO network, the CAA brand is getting diluted.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Citation 501SP $550K FIRM
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2021, 09:30 
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Joined: 08/16/15
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Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
Username Protected wrote:
This looks like a great example of a great type.

The question was “why is this less than a Meridian”. I stand by my answers and would definitely take this over a Meridian


The market is very smart. The answer, because it is worth more. Modern airframe, modern avionics, easier to fly, much more economical, I would make a case safer, especially for low time, low time in type pilots. Doesn't need a type rating, yearly 61.58 rides. More versatile, with respect to runways. I mean you could look at the performance tables in a Meridian, but if it is a paved runway in the US, pretty much guaranteed that you can get the Meridian in and out safely. Not advocating not looking at performance tables, but not many places that you can't operate a Meridian, High, hot, and contaminated runways are no problem, I leased a Mustang at a pretty good rate for one week when my Meridian was in the shop. I think I was in 30K for the week flying about 20 hours iirc, big fuel bills, big ramp fees, the lease, and the instructor pro-pilot were pretty cheap. Using it just like my Meridian, long, short, weather. That is a couple months usage in the Meridian. And like was said, ramp and hangar fees are much higher for the jet. And no, CAA is less and less waiving ramp fees. Most of the airports I fly into, maybe 90%, are now charging ramp fees, even with CAA, and since I usually hangar away, there is a big difference with the jet versus TP most places, in spite of the footprint being similar. Market doesn't lie. ;)

_________________
Chuck Ivester
Piper M600
Ogden UT


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Citation 501SP $550K FIRM
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2021, 10:05 
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Location: KHPN
Aircraft: TBM 850L
Username Protected wrote:
I stand by my answers and would definitely take this over a Meridian
Mission, mission, mission.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Citation 501SP $550K FIRM
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2021, 15:05 
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Joined: 12/02/13
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Location: Salt Lake City KSLC
Aircraft: C414, C501SP
For those of you contemplating the move to a Citation 501 from the prop world, I did it about one year ago and would highly recommend it. I have owned and flown Cessna 414s and 421s and also a Cheyenne II. Once you get over the initial learning curve of flying a jet, it is easier and more confidence inspiring to fly the Citation. Gone is the worry on take off of losing an engine, and you blow through the lower level turbulence and icing so quickly you don't even notice it. You cruise above most of the weather, even if you are just at FL350. There is just no comparison with regard to the experience of flying a jet versus anything with a prop. It is so smooth and quiet and without any vibration. Another aspect of the experience is the view from the cockpit of a Citation is probably the best you are going to get. I would argue that it is probably cheaper to own a Citation compared to say a 421 if you are making regular long distance trips and use CAA FBOs to buy fuel. Yes the Citation burns three times the fuel/hr but the fuel is about half the price and you are going easily 50% faster. And the 421 probably costs more in maintenance. Both are legacy airframes with similar systems and support, but the Citation is built to a much higher standard and as Mike C points out you can put it on a low utilization maintenance program and the maintenance intervals are much less frequent. Probably the biggest difference is that the PWJT15D engines just require so much less frequent maintenance than a turbocharged piston engine. They are just way more reliable. Both the 421 and the Citation require good access to a maintenance shop that knows the type. I have had to replace a flap microswitch, overhaul a fuel boost pump, and overhaul an Eros oxygen mask in the 100 or so hours I have flown it in the last year. You may have to find a different shop to maintain the Citation than the shop you are using for the 421, but there are plenty of mechanics and shops for Citations that are not factory service centers and I don't think that maintenance has to cost any more for the Citation than any 400 series Cessna or twin engine turboprop. I am very happy with my 501SP and I can hardly imagine flying anything else at this point. It is so much fun to fly!


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Citation 501SP $550K FIRM
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2021, 15:35 
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Hi Michael, thanks for the comments. How many hours did you have in the 400 series before you moved up to the 501?


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Citation 501SP $550K FIRM
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2021, 16:50 
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I know this has been covered but quickly:

What does the FAA require to fly the 501SP single pilot?

What does insurance typically require?


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Citation 501SP $550K FIRM
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2021, 20:09 
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Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 4281
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Aircraft: G44, R44, C501, A109
Username Protected wrote:
I know this has been covered but quickly:

What does the FAA require to fly the 501SP single pilot?

What does insurance typically require?


FAA requires nothing more than a type rating and annual 61.58 checkride. Insurance requires the same with maybe initial jet mentoring if you have no jet time.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Citation 501SP $550K FIRM
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2021, 20:11 
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Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 4281
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Aircraft: G44, R44, C501, A109
Username Protected wrote:
For those of you contemplating the move to a Citation 501 from the prop world, I did it about one year ago and would highly recommend it. I have owned and flown Cessna 414s and 421s and also a Cheyenne II. Once you get over the initial learning curve of flying a jet, it is easier and more confidence inspiring to fly the Citation. Gone is the worry on take off of losing an engine, and you blow through the lower level turbulence and icing so quickly you don't even notice it. You cruise above most of the weather, even if you are just at FL350. There is just no comparison with regard to the experience of flying a jet versus anything with a prop. It is so smooth and quiet and without any vibration. Another aspect of the experience is the view from the cockpit of a Citation is probably the best you are going to get. I would argue that it is probably cheaper to own a Citation compared to say a 421 if you are making regular long distance trips and use CAA FBOs to buy fuel. Yes the Citation burns three times the fuel/hr but the fuel is about half the price and you are going easily 50% faster. And the 421 probably costs more in maintenance. Both are legacy airframes with similar systems and support, but the Citation is built to a much higher standard and as Mike C points out you can put it on a low utilization maintenance program and the maintenance intervals are much less frequent. Probably the biggest difference is that the PWJT15D engines just require so much less frequent maintenance than a turbocharged piston engine. They are just way more reliable. Both the 421 and the Citation require good access to a maintenance shop that knows the type. I have had to replace a flap microswitch, overhaul a fuel boost pump, and overhaul an Eros oxygen mask in the 100 or so hours I have flown it in the last year. You may have to find a different shop to maintain the Citation than the shop you are using for the 421, but there are plenty of mechanics and shops for Citations that are not factory service centers and I don't think that maintenance has to cost any more for the Citation than any 400 series Cessna or twin engine turboprop. I am very happy with my 501SP and I can hardly imagine flying anything else at this point. It is so much fun to fly!


This is a very true statement. A 501 has the identical systems (an air cycle machine is added) to any other piston pressurized twin or turboprop except it’s much easier to work on and better built (well maybe the MU-2 is just as well made) so obviously the mx required is going to be the same or less.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Citation 501SP $550K FIRM
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2021, 20:23 
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Location: Salt Lake City KSLC
Aircraft: C414, C501SP
Username Protected wrote:
Hi Michael, thanks for the comments. How many hours did you have in the 400 series before you moved up to the 501?


I have probably 400-500 hours in 400 series twin Cessna aircraft over the last 5 years. I did my type rating with Mitch Ainge at Arizona Type Ratings in my aircraft over the course of one week. It was a big learning curve, and I already had about 150 hours in a turboprop which helped some. But it didn't take long to get really comfortable flying the Citation. I was already used to the lower flight levels and talking with controllers, using pressurization, etc. I am based at KSLC and the biggest difference now that I am in the Citation is that they treat you just the same as all of the commercial airliners, which means they give you specific speeds to keep up, oftentimes 250 kts as you come in on the arrival procedures. Things definitely happen quicker in that respect.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Citation 501SP $550K FIRM
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2021, 08:56 
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Joined: 10/14/14
Posts: 333
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Location: Bishop, GA
Aircraft: A36, C310, C421
Nice plane! Anyone want a 421B? :bud:

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 Post subject: Re: FS: Citation 501SP $550K FIRM
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2021, 13:19 
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Joined: 11/08/13
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Location: KCRQ
Aircraft: Breeezy, 182,601P
Anyone want a 50/50 partnership on this at KCRQ?


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 Post subject: Re: FS: Citation 501SP $550K FIRM
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2021, 19:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
Anyone want a 50/50 partnership on this at KCRQ?


I sent you two guys that might be interested. Sorry I misread your airport code..that’s not going to help you


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