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09 May 2025, 13:45 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1963 BE35-B33 Debonair
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2025, 15:38 
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Joined: 05/09/18
Posts: 1058
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Location: Tucson, AZ
Aircraft: 1980 TR182
Even with an engine tear-down and inspection, can the plane safely use G100UL without further modifications? :rofl:

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Stan Kartchner
Tucson, AZ (KRYN]


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1963 BE35-B33 Debonair
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2025, 13:03 
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Joined: 07/14/15
Posts: 496
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Location: Seattle, WA (S50)
Aircraft: 1969 Baron D55
What is the price of the aircraft minus just the engine?

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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1963 BE35-B33 Debonair
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2025, 13:19 
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Joined: 03/25/12
Posts: 7027
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Location: KCMA - Camarillo, CA
Aircraft: Bonanza G-35
If you have maintained the aircraft including annuals, etc. wouldn’t the same exposure to perceived liability be the same for the airframe as the engine? On the surface, you don’t project much confidence in your work by demanding the buyer indemnify you by essentially overhauling the engine. Based on this, why would anyone want to purchase an aircraft from an A&P/IA that doesn't’ trust his own work?


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1963 BE35-B33 Debonair
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2025, 10:53 
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Joined: 07/17/13
Posts: 2129
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Location: Covington, LA (KHDC)
Aircraft: 1966 C55 Baron
We all have different risk profiles, I guess.

This guy had a different risk profile than me too. I'm restoring planes with the hope they'll be around long after I'm gone, but not all of us think that way.

Richard, please consider Dick Collins advice. 40RC was his, and his alone. Next owner? Salvage company.

https://medium.com/the-pilots-collectio ... 3fd9c934a7

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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1963 BE35-B33 Debonair
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2025, 18:38 
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Joined: 04/04/21
Posts: 7
Location: Boerne, TX
Aircraft: McD-D F/A18
This is the weirdest sales listing I have seen in a while. There has got to be something else going on.. Using your logic, whenever any airplane's engine quits during flight, everyone has the ability to sue the OH shop.. I haven't ever heard of that happening. I know you can basically try and sue anyone for anything (assuming there is an attorney willing to file it), but judges don't pick up stupid cases. This would be a stupid case if someone should attempt it. Again, there has got to be something else going on here..


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1963 BE35-B33 Debonair
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2025, 15:28 
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Joined: 02/08/20
Posts: 97
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Location: KTOA (rja4383@yahoo.com)
Aircraft: BE 35-B33
Username Protected wrote:
A complete disassembly. That would pass liability to the mechanic signing off the teardown/IRAN. Another option would be an STC installation of a different model engine - several exist. Remember - engines come and go, airframes are the permanent basis for the aircraft.


Would money sit in escrow while this happens? Can the buyer do this in your hangar rent-free?



Sale must be finalized; escrow serves no purpose as engine condition not warranted. Yes, my hangar would be available for a reasonable time period, as well as a tail support stand.

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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1963 BE35-B33 Debonair
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2025, 15:32 
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Joined: 02/08/20
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Location: KTOA (rja4383@yahoo.com)
Aircraft: BE 35-B33
Username Protected wrote:
Even with an engine tear-down and inspection, can the plane safely use G100UL without further modifications? :rofl:



If the IO-470K is approved for it, yes.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1963 BE35-B33 Debonair
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2025, 15:41 
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Joined: 02/08/20
Posts: 97
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Location: KTOA (rja4383@yahoo.com)
Aircraft: BE 35-B33
Username Protected wrote:
If you have maintained the aircraft including annuals, etc. wouldn’t the same exposure to perceived liability be the same for the airframe as the engine? On the surface, you don’t project much confidence in your work by demanding the buyer indemnify you by essentially overhauling the engine. Based on this, why would anyone want to purchase an aircraft from an A&P/IA that doesn't’ trust his own work?



Annuals are done 'annually', thereby relieving the prior IA from ongoing responsibility. Engine overhauls are not. I have every confidence in my work or I'd not be operating the aircraft - the engine is performing excellently. I don't wish to be named in any potential litigation, which would require the retention of counsel regardless of merit. It has happened to MANY A&Ps. We live in a very litigious society in case you haven't noticed.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1963 BE35-B33 Debonair
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2025, 16:06 
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Joined: 02/08/20
Posts: 97
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Location: KTOA (rja4383@yahoo.com)
Aircraft: BE 35-B33
Username Protected wrote:
Why don't you just advertise the airplane with NO engine then? This is hands down the weirdest selling contingency I've ever seen.



It's already priced essentially that way. I would otherwise be asking $130-135K. How many aircraft do you know of flown and maintained by the same qualified individual for (48) years? Most change hands regularly and at any rate receive varied quality maintenance, ranging from superior to lousy. Aircraft not enjoying owner participation from a capable and motivated individual are, for the most part, undermaintained. Our aircraft are complex and require quality maintenance accordingly. I'll match this airframe against anything half its age. It rates perhaps one out of hundreds, or better. For those with a genuine interest, phone me for some elaboration on maintenance issues. I could write a book, but conversation works better.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1963 BE35-B33 Debonair
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2025, 18:59 
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Joined: 06/07/19
Posts: 379
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I don't know how you have time to even post here, you must be drowning in buyers waving cash stacks at you and fighting one another to win this jewel.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1963 BE35-B33 Debonair
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2025, 19:58 
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Joined: 01/07/19
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Location: KGTU
Aircraft: B33, 8A
Richard, you have a number of valid points and concerns. Couldn’t you address the issue with some legal document signed by the buyer, a form of hold harmless agreement? I guess a piece of paper could still have legal costs to defend it.

I had an old friend who wouldn’t sell any of his old planes as he was concerned about lawsuits that could wipe out a lot more than some plane sale. I think his estate later dealt with the sales.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1963 BE35-B33 Debonair
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2025, 13:38 
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Joined: 02/08/20
Posts: 97
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Location: KTOA (rja4383@yahoo.com)
Aircraft: BE 35-B33
Username Protected wrote:
I don't know how you have time to even post here, you must be drowning in buyers waving cash stacks at you and fighting one another to win this jewel.



Yes, you're right, but I'm managing to cope with it. And yes again, it IS a jewel, or rather a 'diamond in the rough', at least in the eyes of those who know what they're looking at.


Last edited on 22 Apr 2025, 13:46, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1963 BE35-B33 Debonair
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2025, 13:45 
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Joined: 02/08/20
Posts: 97
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Location: KTOA (rja4383@yahoo.com)
Aircraft: BE 35-B33
Username Protected wrote:
Richard, you have a number of valid points and concerns. Couldn’t you address the issue with some legal document signed by the buyer, a form of hold harmless agreement? I guess a piece of paper could still have legal costs to defend it.

I had an old friend who wouldn’t sell any of his old planes as he was concerned about lawsuits that could wipe out a lot more than some plane sale. I think his estate later dealt with the sales.



I'm in the same position as your late friend. A hold harmless agreement can always be challenged in court, regardless of the merits of that challenge, which then requires the same legal counsel to be retained. No thanks. Some commenters here don't appear to understand the possible implications.


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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1963 BE35-B33 Debonair
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2025, 13:56 
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Joined: 07/17/13
Posts: 2129
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Location: Covington, LA (KHDC)
Aircraft: 1966 C55 Baron
Username Protected wrote:
No thanks. Some commenters here don't appear to understand the possible implications.



Or perhaps, we really do understand and know functionally there isn't anything that can be done about it and your extreme efforts wont work.

The reality is even if the buyer follows your instructions to the letter, you can still be sued. Any lawyer can maintain that the crazy instructions you forced them to do in your hangar damaged the plane, and you're responsible for that.

I get what you're trying to achieve. I do not believe it is achievable. Anyone can be sued at any time, for any reason. That's the way the legal system works. Doesn't mean they'll win, but they can damn sure try.

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 Post subject: Re: FS: 1963 BE35-B33 Debonair
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2025, 14:00 
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Joined: 11/08/14
Posts: 1284
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Company: OptCulture
Location: KELA Eagle Lake, Tx
Aircraft: Wag Aero Cuby
GLWS


Last edited on 23 Apr 2025, 14:19, edited 1 time in total.

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