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19 Nov 2017, 15:24 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Wing Bolt group buy
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2016, 12:48 
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This puts clarity to the inconsistencies of the revised maintenance manuals where Mother Beech has (recommended) intervals inconsistent with what the AD.
What really blows my mind is the AD originated due to some guys in the assembly line over torqueing some bolts because they lubricated the threads not because there was an initial failure.

My experience in commercial aircraft inspecting around major bolts with ultrasonic and eddy current techniques - I am quite happy to inspect my forward upper and aft fittings with eddy current with the bolts in place and then remove them If an anomaly is detected. Even torque check on nuts is a standard practice in inspection intervals.

This is all more favorable to inducing man damage for unnecessary removals.

On of the recommendation from the Wing Bolt inspection class was to measure the wing incidence angle and record it as soon as you get your hands on the plane (new) because they don't actually measure it or set it to a determined point at the factory.

:deadhorse: If it's not broke don't fix it. and then there is
:hammer: If you want it bad - you'll get it bad.

:whiteflag:


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 Post subject: Re: Wing Bolt group buy
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2016, 13:12 
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That seems like a good price. :thumbup:

The AD is required every 5 years regardless for flight status and is mandatory in nature.

Replacement and inspection instructions not associated with an AD and not part of the origional maintinance instructions are not required though may not be a bad idea.



:cheers:

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 Post subject: Re: Wing Bolt group buy
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2016, 19:15 
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So is it voluntary nonmandatory or mandatory nonvoluntary? I've always thought unnecessary removal and reinstallation was a good way to bugger up a perfectly good part.


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 Post subject: Re: Wing Bolt group buy
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2016, 08:50 
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It's dumb for sure but it's mandated by AD. It must be done and the plane is not airworthy without it.

:cheers:

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 Post subject: Re: Wing Bolt group buy
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2016, 09:05 
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Username Protected wrote:
It's dumb for sure but it's mandated by AD. It must be done and the plane is not airworthy without it.

:cheers:


For those of us who aren't crystal clear on the AD, is the legal requirement to maintain airworthiness merely an inspection of the lower forward bolts? Further maintenance items such as the fitting inspection and hardware replacement are not mandatory for part 91 operations in the US. Is this correct?

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 Post subject: Re: Wing Bolt group buy
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2016, 16:38 
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copied straight from the current AD -

NOTE 4: In lower forward joints that are asterisked in Table I of this AD, while bolts are removed for accomplishment of Paragraph (a), above, it is recommended that inboard and outboard fittings be inspected, by a fluorescent penetrant method, for fatigue cracks in washer face areas of the fittings. For some of the asterisked joints, inspections of fittings are required by other AD's, but inspections of fittings are not required by this AD.

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies ... hcraft+e50


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 Post subject: Re: Wing Bolt group buy
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2016, 16:46 
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I just attended the wing bolt inspection class this spring - while the AD recommends penetrant inspection - Mother Beech - is now recommending eddy current.

And the bolts are not life limited - if they pass the mag particle inspection you can put them back in for another 5 years. What you should know as an A&P is if the self locking feature drag torque is too low it doesn't matter if the nut passes the mag particle inspection - it's no good because the self locking feature is degraded. You should be measuring the drag torque and adding it to the bolt torque for your final torque number.


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 Post subject: Re: Wing Bolt group buy
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2016, 16:59 
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Craig - for your specific answer I have to make sure your Baron 58 is not one of these -

(c) This AD applies to Models 58P and 58TC airplanes, with the following serial numbers: TJ-
177, TJ-178, TJ-180, TJ-211, TJ-213, TJ-247, TJ-284, TJ-285, TJ-289, TJ-290, TJ-314, TJ-322, TJ-
367, TJ-368, TJ-370, TJ-371, TJ-425, TJ-426, TJ-433, TJ-442, and TK-33, that are certificated in any
category. These airplanes were used as lead airplanes by the United States Forest Service for
firefighting missions.

The entire airframe is life limited to 4500 hours as well as any part removed from it - so technically if a wing bolt was installed on one of these planes it became life limited even after it's removed from the aircraft.


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 Post subject: Re: Wing Bolt group buy
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2016, 17:41 
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Username Protected wrote:
Craig - for your specific answer I have to make sure your Baron 58 is not one of these -

(c) This AD applies to Models 58P and 58TC airplanes, with the following serial numbers: TJ-
177, TJ-178, TJ-180, TJ-211, TJ-213, TJ-247, TJ-284, TJ-285, TJ-289, TJ-290, TJ-314, TJ-322, TJ-
367, TJ-368, TJ-370, TJ-371, TJ-425, TJ-426, TJ-433, TJ-442, and TK-33, that are certificated in any
category. These airplanes were used as lead airplanes by the United States Forest Service for
firefighting missions.

The entire airframe is life limited to 4500 hours as well as any part removed from it - so technically if a wing bolt was installed on one of these planes it became life limited even after it's removed from the aircraft.


I'm actually interested as it concerns the Twin Bonanzas. I think I would eventually like to get one and BT has proven to be a great place to learn about them. It sounds like the AD is what I thought it was, inspect the bolts every five years with no life limit and while you are in there, its recommended that you check the fittings. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Wing Bolt group buy
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2016, 23:18 
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thanks Craig,

I live by the five "Why's"

Why?
why?
why?
why?
Why?

Pilot Checklist - Fuel pump - Why am i checking the fuel pump?
AD - Why am I doing this AD?

in most cases if you as why 5 times or less you will get to the root reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Wing Bolt group buy
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2016, 00:50 
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Username Protected wrote:
thanks Craig,

I live by the five "Why's"

Why?
why?
why?
why?
Why?

Pilot Checklist - Fuel pump - Why am i checking the fuel pump?
AD - Why am I doing this AD?

in most cases if you as why 5 times or less you will get to the root reason.


I think my three year old daughter uses the same logic. :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Wing Bolt group buy
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2016, 06:21 
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Guys,
I think most of us were already aware there was no "life limit" on these Bolts, but good to reiterate here for all to see / read. Also aware of the eddy current / or penetrant inspection and then you can reinstall them. I have done that in the past.
My thoughts are whenever I purchase an "unknown" Twin Bonanza, to install NEW Bolts and Nuts the first time they are due. I have no idea how well someone complied with this A.D. prior to my Ownership and how they installed and torqued these bolts and nuts.
Personally, for the $250.00 to $300.00 investment of New Bolts and New Nuts, it's just money well spent in my opinion. It also speeds up the process for most of us who would have to send the bolts out somewhere to be inspected and then returned while the airplane sits with the bolts removed.

I respect all this information sharing and everyone's thought processes here. I'm just sharing mine........................... :peace:

Gregg :pilot:


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 Post subject: Re: Wing Bolt group buy
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2016, 12:36 
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My wingbolts are due in Oct. The economics of buying new versus testing the existing are clearly skewed to buying new as Gregg suggests. Of course that is just part of a larger issue IMO. Airplane maintenance is different than auto maintenance- if its not done correctly it can kill you. In this regard I have always contemplated the parallels betweem medical treatment and airplane maintenance. Medical mistakes in Hospitals is the 3rd leading cause of death in the U.S- estimated to be 440,000 deaths. I recently had a pilot friend lose the vision in his right eye from dental surgery from really what amounted to a preventive procedure.

So we small band of brothers- maybe 60 active T- Bone owners out 1000 built airplanes, with maybe 25 posters on BT- are so worried and focused on the letter of compliance as the ultimate threat to our existence that its easy to overlook what the real threat may be when the wing bolts are disturbed- a botched maintenance procedure.
There are few if any items more critical on a Beech airplane as the wing bolts and their attach fittings.

Like so many actions of the Federal government regulatory bureacracy, painting is done with a huge broad brush the size a house painter would use. Hours flown- little or many, aircraft home base location- sea coast or inland arid, etc are all glossed over and ignored as irrelevant to a mandated inspection that must be done no matter what. I hope my mechanic knows what factoring in "drag" means when torqueing the nuts ( mentoned above). So pardon the rant, but while I will comply like the sheep I have become worrying about FAA compliance for 50 years of aircraft ownership, I know where the real danger lurks- the cure maybe worse than any disease and the operation maybe a success but unfortunately the patient is at real risk of dying..

Ron Paliughi


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 Post subject: Re: Wing Bolt group buy
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2016, 23:26 
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Agreed Ron, I can't for the life of me think that the repetitive nature of the inspections won't eventually render the fittings unserviceable. For something that when installed properly has never had a known failure it would seem an irresponsible act to require such invasive maintinance. This no doubt was not the intent of the administrator when the pertinent directive was penned. The government as flawed as it is is subject to review. Perhaps it's time we readdressed the issues at hand with the administrator and see if perhaps a better balance can be struck.

:cheers:

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 Post subject: Re: Wing Bolt group buy
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2017, 17:22 
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Hey Jim,

I read something and it tickled a cobweb in my mind.

Note 3. Model D50E, when modified per Beech Kit No. 50-5001-1 and re-identified as Model D50E-5990. eligible for 5990 lb. maximum gross weight.


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If you are at Beech ask about the gross weight decrease kit.


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