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19 Nov 2017, 15:39 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Garmin Aera 660 / GDL39 3D
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 02:37 
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I'm planning on panel mounting (via an Airgizmos dock) a Garmin 660. The 660 will be hardwired to a GDL39 3D. The 660 is currently yoke mounted and its satellite reception appears excellent. Does anyone have any experience as to whether satellite reception deteriorates meaningfully in a panel mount configuration? If so, is it worth installing an external GPS antenna? I had thought that the GDL39 would also provide a WAAS GPS signal, but in my testing there's no evidence that that is the case (although the GDL39 is providing traffic and attitude info via Bluetooth). If the GDL39 is meant to provide GPS info, then an additional external GPS antenna might be redundant. As an aside, the Bluetooth link between the GLD and the 660 looks pretty solid and the glass cockpit display on the Aera 660 is responsive and mirrors the existing instruments pretty accurately.

I'd appreciate any advice from anyone who has panel mounted an Aera 660.

Thanks

Stephen


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 Post subject: Re: Garmin Aera 660 / GDL39 3D
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 07:37 
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I have my 796 panel mounted and didn't notice any difference in reception however I have the Garmin GA 25 gcx connected and have noticed an improvement in xm reception. (I know the 660 doesn't have XM yet). Don't think it would hurt for the $31.00 it costs to just hook it up. As far as having the GDL 39 remote mounted I have an old DME antenna hooked up to it and the reception is amazing. It will easily pick up multiple stations over 100 miles away.


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 Post subject: Re: Garmin Aera 660 / GDL39 3D
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 08:04 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm planning on panel mounting (via an Airgizmos dock) a Garmin 660. The 660 will be hardwired to a GDL39 3D. The 660 is currently yoke mounted and its satellite reception appears excellent. Does anyone have any experience as to whether satellite reception deteriorates meaningfully in a panel mount configuration? If so, is it worth installing an external GPS antenna? I had thought that the GDL39 would also provide a WAAS GPS signal, but in my testing there's no evidence that that is the case (although the GDL39 is providing traffic and attitude info via Bluetooth). If the GDL39 is meant to provide GPS info, then an additional external GPS antenna might be redundant. As an aside, the Bluetooth link between the GLD and the 660 looks pretty solid and the glass cockpit display on the Aera 660 is responsive and mirrors the existing instruments pretty accurately.

I'd appreciate any advice from anyone who has panel mounted an Aera 660.

Thanks

Stephen


Hello Stephen,

The Aera 660 has a built-in high performance WAAS GPS/GLONASS receiver. It provides position data to the GDL 39 3D, not the other way around. The Aera 660 does not use GPS data from anything but its own built-in receiver, which may of course use either the built-in GPS antenna, or an external GPS antenna like the GA 25MCX antenna offered as an accessory.

It is always difficult to say whether or not a panel mounted device will require an external antenna, but the chances are good it will. Jack Letts seems to be the "Aera 660 whisperer" on Beechtalk and has installed an Aera 660 in his panel, so perhaps he can comment here.

As a side note, GDL 39R receivers are quite popular for use with the Aera 660/796 in EAB aircraft (perhaps certified) because they can be mounted where they do not receive a GPS signal. They receive WAAS GPS data from the Aera 660/796, and all that is needed is a single UAT antenna connected to one of the two BNC connectors (and power/ground/RS-232). If you want the best reception for picking up the FIS-B/TIS-B datalink from ground stations, your UAT antenna should be on the bottom of the plane so it has a clear view of the ground stations providing the datalink without the airframe and engine blocking reception.

Image Image
You can also remote mount your GDL 39 3D with the supplied snap-in bracket and use a remote UAT antenna on the bottom of the plane if you choose. The process for connecting a remote UAT antenna is described in the manual.

Like the GDL 39R, the GDL 39 3D will receive GPS data from the Aera 660, so it can be mounted where the sun doesn't shine (excuse me - where it doesn't have a view of the sky).

Thanks,
Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Garmin Aera 660 / GDL39 3D
PostPosted: 02 Mar 2017, 09:13 
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Location: Indiana
Aircraft: TBM, C185, C195
"Where the sun don't shine"

Steve,
I like you already. Keep in mind most of us like to keep the greasy side down already.

_________________
Chuck
KEVV
TBM8 BFR IPC, C195


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 Post subject: Re: Garmin Aera 660 / GDL39 3D
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017, 19:12 
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Posts: 282
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Location: Brooklyn, NY
Aircraft: Debonair 35-C33A
Steve from Garmin Support - just to verify, putting the GDL 39 3D on the floor doesn't impair its reception of the ADS-B traffic and weather signals? And second question, will it revert to a Garmin Pilot app's iPad GPS reading if on the floor without its own gps signal? Thanks for clarifying the original question which isn't documented anywhere: Aera 660 gps feeds gdl 39 3D! Best - Vince


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 Post subject: Re: Garmin Aera 660 / GDL39 3D
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017, 22:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
Steve from Garmin Support - just to verify, putting the GDL 39 3D on the floor doesn't impair its reception of the ADS-B traffic and weather signals? And second question, will it revert to a Garmin Pilot app's iPad GPS reading if on the floor without its own gps signal? Thanks for clarifying the original question which isn't documented anywhere: Aera 660 gps feeds gdl 39 3D! Best - Vince


Hello Vince,

For the first question, I may not understand what you are asking. If you put the GDL 39 3D on the floor of an aircraft while using the ADS-B antenna attached to the top of the GDL 39 3D, it will most certainly affect ADS-B reception. If you wish to mount the GDL 39 3D inside the aircraft, you will need to use a remote mount ADS-B antenna (preferably on the bottom of the aircraft) instead of the folding antenna that mounts on the top and comes with the unit.

For the second question, tablets and phones running Garmin Pilot cannot provide GPS data to the GDL 39 3D, only a great Garmin portable GPS or a G3X system are capable of doing that.

Note however, that if you have the GDL 39 3D connected to the Aera 660, for example, the GDL 39 3D will receive GPS data from the Aera 660 and provide that data to any Garmin Pilot device connected over Bluetooth to the GDL 39 3D.

Let us know if this did not answer your questions.

Thanks,
Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Garmin Aera 660 / GDL39 3D
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017, 22:30 
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Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Thanks Steve. I think I understand: I should try to keep the Garmin 39 3D off the floor to receive ADS-B traffic and weather, though keeping it off the floor is not necessary for the receiver to get was gps? In other words, no worries if I don't care about waas gps on a 430 if I get it on the Aera 660?


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 Post subject: Re: Garmin Aera 660 / GDL39 3D
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017, 22:56 
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Username Protected wrote:
Thanks Steve. I think I understand: I should try to keep the Garmin 39 3D off the floor to receive ADS-B traffic and weather, though keeping it off the floor is not necessary for the receiver to get was gps? In other words, no worries if I don't care about waas gps on a 430 if I get it on the Aera 660?


Hello Vince,

Yes, as far as GPS goes, you can operate the GDL 39 3D from anywhere as long as it is connected to the Aera 660 since it supplies GPS to the GDL.

ADS-B reception is mostly line-of-sight, so if you place your ADS-B antenna where it doesn't have line-of-sight to ground stations and ADS-B Out aircraft, it will not work well to receive traffic and weather.

Thanks,
Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Garmin Aera 660 / GDL39 3D
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2017, 23:59 
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Joined: 04/01/13
Posts: 2144
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Location: Overland Park, KS (KOJC)
Aircraft: 1975 Bonanza F33A
Wow, I feel kind of special and famous; got a shout out from Garmin Technical Support!

I have become a bit of a 660 advocate because I think it packs so much into an inexpensive box. Tons of features, very reliable, bright easy to read display. I have the 660 mounted in the panel right next to the Aspen in the MFD position.

Attachment:
IMG_1164.JPG


I 3D printed a bracket and release mechanism so that it sits flush in the panel and looks like a panel mount unit. It's a very clean installation.

I've flown with it in the panel for 50-60 hours and have had no problem with GPS reception.

Jack


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 Post subject: Re: Garmin Aera 660 / GDL39 3D
PostPosted: 07 Mar 2017, 21:18 
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Joined: 10/22/13
Posts: 163
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Company: Duquette Cabinet Co.
Location: LGC - LaGrange, Georgia
Aircraft: 79' A36
Nice panel Jack! I have a 660 as a backup GPS to the 530w. Love the unit. Lot of info. Works like a cellphone. I did have a faulty unit that was bought last year at sun & Fun but Garmin sent a new replacement.
I have mine powered from the airplane but do not have an external antenna. No probs with reception.
Currently adding a Garmin 345 transponder and a G5 backup attitude indicator. Not sure how all of this will interrelate especially with ForeFlight but looking forward to learning.

_________________
Larry Duquette Jr.
larry@duquettecabinetry.com


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 Post subject: Re: Garmin Aera 660 / GDL39 3D
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2017, 01:55 
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Location: Tupelo, MS
Aircraft: Beech N35 Bonanza
With Steve from Garmin tech support on topic, I am wondering if he might comment on how far we are from having Sirius XM weather on the Area 660?

I believe there's a large number of pilots that aren't happy with ADS-B NEXRAD resolution, particularly at a distance, that are waiting to purchase the 660 until Sirius XM is available. I know I am one. Even at Bonanza speeds, I find the ADS-B NEXRAD too blocky to see cell development and movement when I'm 250 NM away, so I've kept my XM subscription. I prefer not to fly without Sirius XM.

Are we close enough that Garmin can officially comment on when Sirius XM is coming to the Area 660? There's nothing on the Garmin website as of two days ago and nothing when I Google it.

I was unofficially told about a year ago that Sirius XM for the 660 was in development and was coming soon. If so, will it use GXM 42, or a new Sirius XM receiver?

I started with a 496 in 2008 when the Bonanza restoration concluded, then an Aera 510 when it became available. My main reason for panel mounting the Garmin portables was to get NEXRAD while the ADS-B technology was being developed, towers installed, and cockpit hardware developed. Back in 2008, I thought we'd all have dedicated MFDs for weather and traffic like used in Captstone. The iPhone was brand new and the iPad was not even on the horizon. The portables were seen as a temporary stop-gap, though I've been very happy with the Area 510 and 496 before it.

I hear the 660 has a brighter screen (510 can wash out with direct light), better resolution, and improved touch screen. Also, I hear the AirGizmo cutout of the panel is the same for the 660 as the 500 and 400 series, too.

In April, I am flying to Cincinnati Avionics for installation of a GTX327 and get a pitot static. They installed GDL 88/FS210 2 years ago. I left the KT76 then but prewired for a future Garmin transponder in case it failed. My KT76 works fine per ATC, but on one flight out of 20 I get an a problem with GDL 88 not communicating wirelessly with the transponder. I thought I had it fixed after having the KT76 frequency adjusted, but the random, brief communication errors came back 6 months later. The GTX327 is solid state so the upgrade will likely be more reliable and will use less power. It may also have a stronger signal; I've been told as the cavity tube in a KT76 ages the signal output goes down.

Two years ago Garmin told me there were no plans to make an all-in-one mode S ES transponder that would also receive ADS-B, such as the 345. But, it only made sense to develop it. I was also told that the FAA did not want small planes to install mode S ES as the main way to comply with the ADS-B mandate as there were concerns of frequency congestion. So, I had GDL 88 installed to avoid the 2020 deadline Unfortunately, GDL 88 required interior side panel removal, construction of an avionics rack in the tail, and placement of another belly antenna. I'm very happy with GDL 88, though.

I understand even with the 345 one needs a FS210 (or 510 with 750/650s) to send and receive flight plan transfers from Garmin Pilot. Flight plan transfer is a great feature. I use it on every flight.

Here's screenshot of my current panel without the iPad desk in place, and an older shot from when I had the 496.


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 Post subject: Re: Garmin Aera 660 / GDL39 3D
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2017, 16:04 
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Username Protected wrote:
With Steve from Garmin tech support on topic, I am wondering if he might comment on how far we are from having Sirius XM weather on the Area 660?

I believe there's a large number of pilots that aren't happy with ADS-B NEXRAD resolution, particularly at a distance, that are waiting to purchase the 660 until Sirius XM is available. I know I am one. Even at Bonanza speeds, I find the ADS-B NEXRAD too blocky to see cell development and movement when I'm 250 NM away, so I've kept my XM subscription. I prefer not to fly without Sirius XM.

Are we close enough that Garmin can officially comment on when Sirius XM is coming to the Area 660? There's nothing on the Garmin website as of two days ago and nothing when I Google it.

I was unofficially told about a year ago that Sirius XM for the 660 was in development and was coming soon. If so, will it use GXM 42, or a new Sirius XM receiver?

I started with a 496 in 2008 when the Bonanza restoration concluded, then an Aera 510 when it became available. My main reason for panel mounting the Garmin portables was to get NEXRAD while the ADS-B technology was being developed, towers installed, and cockpit hardware developed. Back in 2008, I thought we'd all have dedicated MFDs for weather and traffic like used in Captstone. The iPhone was brand new and the iPad was not even on the horizon. The portables were seen as a temporary stop-gap, though I've been very happy with the Area 510 and 496 before it.

I hear the 660 has a brighter screen (510 can wash out with direct light), better resolution, and improved touch screen. Also, I hear the AirGizmo cutout of the panel is the same for the 660 as the 500 and 400 series, too.


Hello Justin,

We sure appreciate our loyal portable GPS customers who have supported us over many years and many models!

Yes, the Aera 660 display and touchscreen are dramatically improved over the Aera 5XX series released in 2009. If you haven't had a chance to try out an Aera 660, we hope you do soon.

I made a previous post on another thread that shared most of what we are able to share at this time. We don't announce product availability dates ahead of our new product press releases, but since Garmin has publicly shared the fact that a SXM weather/music receiver is being developed for the Aera 660, we can at least share of couple of screen shots taken during our testing of this new capability.

Thanks everyone for your patience,
Steve

Image Image


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 Post subject: Re: Garmin Aera 660 / GDL39 3D
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2017, 02:57 
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Location: Tupelo, MS
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Thanks for the screenshots to show that it is indeed in development. Hope it comes out soon, such as at Sun n Fun rather than OSH, so I can get it installed when I go to the avionics shop April 20-21, otherwise I will need to wait another two years...it is nealy 6 hours round trip to the shop and I have to use vacation days to dwell while they work. Mine is hardwired using the Aera wiring harness and connected to things like my 430W for auto flight plan crossfill, audio panel for traffic, terrain, and obstruction alerts, the XM antenna, and GDL 39 for traffic, so its not something I can do myself.

Don't mean to hijack the topic, but since I've got you Steve, how has the experience been for those that upgraded from GXM 42 from GXM 40? Last I checked in with Garmin support was just after the Aera software updates supporting GXM42 came out. I was advised that it might be a good idea to delay upgrading if I relied on XM weather in flight, which is definitely the case.

I reviewed the website for Sirius XM and see there are some additional weather products available with the GXM 42 and Sirius XM weather subscription with pilot express (lightning, NEXRAD base reflectivity) as compared to XM weather with the aviator light subscribtion.

Have those with the 42 reported better signal or data integrity with the newer satellites used for Sirius XM weather vs. XM? When I am heading North I may not have a good XM signal at times, likely due to the satellites losing line of site with GXM 40 which is mounted at the very front of my glareshield.

Justin


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 Post subject: Re: Garmin Aera 660 / GDL39 3D
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2017, 05:07 
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Location: Houston, TX
Aircraft: Mooney 201, B737
I wish my GTN750 could have two data fields per corner like my Aera 660.

Username Protected wrote:
With Steve from Garmin tech support on topic, I am wondering if he might comment on how far we are from having Sirius XM weather on the Area 660?

I believe there's a large number of pilots that aren't happy with ADS-B NEXRAD resolution, particularly at a distance, that are waiting to purchase the 660 until Sirius XM is available. I know I am one. Even at Bonanza speeds, I find the ADS-B NEXRAD too blocky to see cell development and movement when I'm 250 NM away, so I've kept my XM subscription. I prefer not to fly without Sirius XM.

Are we close enough that Garmin can officially comment on when Sirius XM is coming to the Area 660? There's nothing on the Garmin website as of two days ago and nothing when I Google it.

I was unofficially told about a year ago that Sirius XM for the 660 was in development and was coming soon. If so, will it use GXM 42, or a new Sirius XM receiver?

I started with a 496 in 2008 when the Bonanza restoration concluded, then an Aera 510 when it became available. My main reason for panel mounting the Garmin portables was to get NEXRAD while the ADS-B technology was being developed, towers installed, and cockpit hardware developed. Back in 2008, I thought we'd all have dedicated MFDs for weather and traffic like used in Captstone. The iPhone was brand new and the iPad was not even on the horizon. The portables were seen as a temporary stop-gap, though I've been very happy with the Area 510 and 496 before it.

I hear the 660 has a brighter screen (510 can wash out with direct light), better resolution, and improved touch screen. Also, I hear the AirGizmo cutout of the panel is the same for the 660 as the 500 and 400 series, too.


Hello Justin,

We sure appreciate our loyal portable GPS customers who have supported us over many years and many models!

Yes, the Aera 660 display and touchscreen are dramatically improved over the Aera 5XX series released in 2009. If you haven't had a chance to try out an Aera 660, we hope you do soon.

I made a previous post on another thread that shared most of what we are able to share at this time. We don't announce product availability dates ahead of our new product press releases, but since Garmin has publicly shared the fact that a SXM weather/music receiver is being developed for the Aera 660, we can at least share of couple of screen shots taken during our testing of this new capability.

Thanks everyone for your patience,
Steve

Image Image


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 Post subject: Re: Garmin Aera 660 / GDL39 3D
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2017, 08:20 
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Username Protected wrote:
Don't mean to hijack the topic, but since I've got you Steve, how has the experience been for those that upgraded from GXM 42 from GXM 40? Last I checked in with Garmin support was just after the Aera software updates supporting GXM42 came out. I was advised that it might be a good idea to delay upgrading if I relied on XM weather in flight, which is definitely the case.

I reviewed the website for Sirius XM and see there are some additional weather products available with the GXM 42 and Sirius XM weather subscription with pilot express (lightning, NEXRAD base reflectivity) as compared to XM weather with the aviator light subscribtion.

Have those with the 42 reported better signal or data integrity with the newer satellites used for Sirius XM weather vs. XM? When I am heading North I may not have a good XM signal at times, likely due to the satellites losing line of site with GXM 40 which is mounted at the very front of my glareshield.

Justin

Hello Justin,

We use the GXM 40 (XM), the GXM 42 (SXM), and our new SXM receiver all the time both on the ground and in the air, and don't see a noticeable difference in sensitivity.

They all do a great job of delivering satellite weather as long as they have a clear view of the sky and there are no nearby wireless transmitters (e.g. Bluetooth) that may interfere.

As you know, with the GXM 40/42, the antenna and receiver are combined inside this assembly, so it is not possible to utilize a remote or external antenna. With our new SXM receiver for the Aera 660, you might see an option for a remote SXM antenna which could support more installation flexibility, and in some cases a better signal.

Thanks,
Steve


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