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 Post subject: Howdy - and wannabe future Baron 58 owner - need advice
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2022, 20:31 
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Joined: 06/02/22
Posts: 11
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Aircraft: Baron 58
Hey all! Great to be here... been reading many threads for a bit, but decided it is time to make my first post, and also ask for some help and advice (which seems to be very plentiful here!). I'm looking to buy a Baron 58 this year.

First, about the pilot: ATP, and former CFI/CFII/MEI, with about 2700Hrs. Background started in Naval Aviation training (more on that another time), but later flew for the airlines for a couple years (United Express: BE-1900D. Champion Air: B-727 FE), until 9/11 happened. Got furloughed a couple of times, and had to hang up flying for a career change. 20 years later, and I'm finally ready to jump back in for fun. Been flying a C-310R recently with an instructor to get proficiency back.

Mission: Some for work (20%), mostly for pleasure (80%). I live in South Texas, and most flights will be 350nm or less, but do plan on doing some longer flights for vacations/trips with the family as well as some business trips. Florida, Maryland, Colorado, Nevada - primary destinations to visit family and/or where we like to vacation. We would like to go on some ski trips in the rockies, but not opposed to landing somewhere like Denver and driving up if needed. Family of four (adults) plus a dog will be a pretty common crew. Occasionally six adults for some get weekend getaways with friends.

The plane: Been looking at adds for several months, and think that I'm settling in on a model that is from late 80's to late 90's (seems to be in the sweeter spot from a budget perspective). I've been using VREF to help with some of the valuation on different models and such. The big debate for me has been... buy something a little older, and perhaps a little more standard avionics, and pay for the upgrades, OR go with models that have already been upgraded. The pros of doing the upgraded route will obviously be new avionics, more customized to what I'm looking for, and configured how I want, etc. but the cons... initial downtime, paying premium for new avionics, etc. Definitely looking for advice here. Avionics wise, I've been looking at G500/G500Txi/G600 installs with GTN750/GTN650 stack. Not a huge fan of the Aspen EFD1000 (just seems too narrow for my liking). Plane will be hangered (though I still haven't locked one down yet... seems like majority of owners in south texas are single engine owners, and those typical t-hangers are the right size. Any recommendations on hanger storage (and stories) are welcomed!

Have already gotten quotes on prefinance approval, as well as insurance quotes from Falcon. I've seen some good threads on the forums here about pre-buy inspections and such, and links to a few good sites.

One thing that I could use some advice on is... buyer agents. I know I'll need to have a good (and independent) maintenance shop for the pre-buy, but what about a buying agent. Pros/cons? Typical fees? Worth it? Recommendations for selection? Any referrals here?

Also, if you do have any other good advice (or links/threads) on the overall buying process, please share! As any good pilot, I'm reaching for the checklist... but need a good one to reference. :)

I'll probably have a ton of other questions... but thought this would be a good place to start.

VR,
Chad


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 Post subject: Re: Howdy - and wannabe future Baron 58 owner - need advice
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2022, 21:58 
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Joined: 02/25/13
Posts: 7136
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Location: Jacksonville, FL (KCRG)
Aircraft: 1991 Baron 58
Welcome, the 58 is a great machine. Great choice. Lots of different thoughts on this but if you want to fly, buy everything already installed. The upgrade path has a significant amount of downtime, especially these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Howdy - and wannabe future Baron 58 owner - need advice
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2022, 22:13 
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Joined: 07/02/08
Posts: 2195
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Company: HPA
Location: Twin Cities, MN (KANE)
Aircraft: BE58, C182
Welcome to Beechtalk Chad. Great first post.

I have a 1973 58 equipped basically like you list, plus radar and 550s. Except for the yoke bar and lack of inboard deice boots it's indistinguishable from any newer model with the same radios. They're all about the same airframe with minor tweaks (get Larry Ball's Baron book to read about each year). I'd recommend extending your search to earlier models as they're going to be less expensive and (often) lighter than the later ones. In other words, be open to a wide range; the market's tight on good airframes and you'll have a better shot at getting one that fits you. A friend of mine has a mid-1990s and it's very nice too - not throwing stones.

We started with a nice, very well maintained airplane from an incredible prior owner and updated it to exactly as we want it in a couple stages (interior after a couple of years, then panel a couple years ago). I think we're still money ahead after new everything except paint (that's next year) and it's set up for our needs and travel style. 11 years in, no regrets. I've posted pics before - should be able to find them in a search as I don't have tons of threads.

As for mission, your distances are like ours, just from a much warmer starting point. The plane will do all that very well. I only have a couple trips into the Rockies with ours but it does it with some care about where you go and when. Minnesota to the Georgia coast nonstop with two aboard, to Baltimore nonstop with four, and to Hilton Head in one stop with six aboard, all pretty easy on average days with good reserves (166 gallon tanks).

For buyer's agent, Neal Schwartz is on this site, listed as Latitude Aviation over there --->.

Keep asking questions here as this is a great place to have them answered.

_________________
Jack Shelton
1964 C-182G PPONK
1973 BE-58


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 Post subject: Re: Howdy - and wannabe future Baron 58 owner - need advice
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2022, 22:29 
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Joined: 06/02/22
Posts: 11
Post Likes: +2
Aircraft: Baron 58
Username Protected wrote:
Welcome, the 58 is a great machine. Great choice. Lots of different thoughts on this but if you want to fly, buy everything already installed. The upgrade path has a significant amount of downtime, especially these days.


Thanks David, appreciate that. Yeah been reading on some forums of very significant downtime for upgrades. Will be hard to justify to the wife why I've paid all that money and have no airplane to fly. :)

BTW... for any newer forum members... I had to look up what "AMU" is. Aviation Monetary Unit. $1K=1 AMU. This is used primarily in marriage to discuss expenses of aviation, while still remaining married. Example: "I am planning to buy a new GMA 340 Audio Panel. Her: How much is that??!? Me: Only 1 AMU." Experienced posters... did I get this right? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Howdy - and wannabe future Baron 58 owner - need advice
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2022, 22:35 
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Joined: 06/02/22
Posts: 11
Post Likes: +2
Aircraft: Baron 58
Username Protected wrote:
Welcome to Beechtalk Chad. Great first post.

I have a 1973 58 equipped basically like you list, plus radar and 550s. Except for the yoke bar and lack of inboard deice boots it's indistinguishable from any newer model with the same radios. They're all about the same airframe with minor tweaks (get Larry Ball's Baron book to read about each year). I'd recommend extending your search to earlier models as they're going to be less expensive and (often) lighter than the later ones. In other words, be open to a wide range; the market's tight on good airframes and you'll have a better shot at getting one that fits you. A friend of mine has a mid-1990s and it's very nice too - not throwing stones.

We started with a nice, very well maintained airplane from an incredible prior owner and updated it to exactly as we want it in a couple stages (interior after a couple of years, then panel a couple years ago). I think we're still money ahead after new everything except paint (that's next year) and it's set up for our needs and travel style. 11 years in, no regrets. I've posted pics before - should be able to find them in a search as I don't have tons of threads.

As for mission, your distances are like ours, just from a much warmer starting point. The plane will do all that very well. I only have a couple trips into the Rockies with ours but it does it with some care about where you go and when. Minnesota to the Georgia coast nonstop with two aboard, to Baltimore nonstop with four, and to Hilton Head in one stop with six aboard, all pretty easy on average days with good reserves (166 gallon tanks).

For buyer's agent, Neal Schwartz is on this site, listed as Latitude Aviation over there --->.

Keep asking questions here as this is a great place to have them answered.


Thanks very much Jack! Great info... will definitely check out sources. I have been looking at some older models, and some are very well equipped. I'll keep an open mind. A couple detractors on older models though for me are the yoke configurations (I'm sure that's no surprise). I wasn't aware of the weight advantages though, so I'll definitely look a little more into it (and the book you referenced as well). I've been seeing some references to Neil (or Neal? - seen it spelled both ways on the forums), so will definitely contact him... it was good to see that reaffirmed in your post, since the ones I was reading were probably from a couple of years ago. Thanks very much for the info!

VR,
Chad


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 Post subject: Re: Howdy - and wannabe future Baron 58 owner - need advice
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2022, 07:51 
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Joined: 07/02/08
Posts: 2195
Post Likes: +449
Company: HPA
Location: Twin Cities, MN (KANE)
Aircraft: BE58, C182
I wasn't sure about the yoke at first when we were looking, but it's not a problem - and it does allow a throwover single yoke to give the right seat passenger more room. Except for a little looking around it to see switch and trim positions it quickly becomes natural to use.

The other differences that come with the older panels - throttle-prop and flap-gear controls reversed - also become second nature and proper procedures prevent problems (4 Ps, ha).

A picture from last week may help visualize this.

Attachment:
IMG_2584 (1).jpeg


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_________________
Jack Shelton
1964 C-182G PPONK
1973 BE-58


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 Post subject: Re: Howdy - and wannabe future Baron 58 owner - need advice
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2022, 08:29 
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Joined: 09/02/11
Posts: 1284
Post Likes: +1281
Location: N Alabama
Aircraft: 1968 B55
I'm excited for you! The chase is a big part of the fun (well, except when it's not).

My only real feedback consists of 2 things.

First, try flying with an Aspen before you rule it out. You may find that you like its data presentation and field of view, or you may not. The integrated G500/G600 suite is sweet, but pricey, and buying one locks you in to Garmintopia until whatever time they decide to stop supporting it.

Second, if you decide to use a buyer's agent, Neal Schwartz has a stellar reputation here.

Good luck and keep us posted!


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 Post subject: Re: Howdy - and wannabe future Baron 58 owner - need advice
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2022, 09:19 
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Joined: 02/25/13
Posts: 7136
Post Likes: +2928
Location: Jacksonville, FL (KCRG)
Aircraft: 1991 Baron 58
Username Protected wrote:
Welcome, the 58 is a great machine. Great choice. Lots of different thoughts on this but if you want to fly, buy everything already installed. The upgrade path has a significant amount of downtime, especially these days.


Thanks David, appreciate that. Yeah been reading on some forums of very significant downtime for upgrades. Will be hard to justify to the wife why I've paid all that money and have no airplane to fly. :)

BTW... for any newer forum members... I had to look up what "AMU" is. Aviation Monetary Unit. $1K=1 AMU. This is used primarily in marriage to discuss expenses of aviation, while still remaining married. Example: "I am planning to buy a new GMA 340 Audio Panel. Her: How much is that??!? Me: Only 1 AMU." Experienced posters... did I get this right? ;)


Yes you have that mostly correct. A fully correct answer would be that the GMA 340 audio panel just appeared in the panel, you have no idea how it got there.

As for the Aspen, I flew behind it for 800+ hours and now fly behind a 500 txi. The 500 is much nicer, that said the Aspen was an excellent box and did everything I ever needed. The 500 just has more stuff and we all like more stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Howdy - and wannabe future Baron 58 owner - need advice
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2022, 11:09 
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Joined: 09/02/08
Posts: 358
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Aircraft: B58
I would call BPPP recommended shops (like Beaver Air Services at DWH) and tell them you are looking for an off-market 58 for sale. I called about thirteen shops in the US, and found one that way.

Wife and I fly a '96 with steam gauges (but an older Sandel HSI) with a 530/430 and a GMX-200. KFC-200 works, and the plane has radar/boots/oxygen.


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 Post subject: Re: Howdy - and wannabe future Baron 58 owner - need advice
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2022, 02:45 
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Joined: 02/14/09
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Company: tomdrew.lawyer
Location: Des Moines, IA (KDSM)
Aircraft: 1973 Baron E55
The 58 Baron is the ultimate “can do” airplane. I owned one.

But, I want to throw in there that my E55 with the extended baggage door was just as comfortable (or more?) for 4 adults and bags as the 58. The E55 with 3 reclining seats gives full forward facing leg extension for wife and passengers and was hard to beat. You could have the dog on a pillow between the rear passengers. In the E55 the bags all fit behind the passengers and in the nose baggage. In the 58 you will end up with bags and stuff in the club area when you have 4 adults. Six adults is not happening in the E55, but six in the 58 will need to be a short ride because it will be a game of aviation Twister. YMMV.

_________________
C340A/8KCAB/T182T
F33C/E55/B58
PA 28/32
Currency 12 M: IPC/BFR, CFII Renewal


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 Post subject: Re: Howdy - and wannabe future Baron 58 owner - need advice
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2022, 18:19 
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Joined: 06/02/22
Posts: 11
Post Likes: +2
Aircraft: Baron 58
Username Protected wrote:
I wasn't sure about the yoke at first when we were looking, but it's not a problem - and it does allow a throwover single yoke to give the right seat passenger more room. Except for a little looking around it to see switch and trim positions it quickly becomes natural to use.

The other differences that come with the older panels - throttle-prop and flap-gear controls reversed - also become second nature and proper procedures prevent problems (4 Ps, ha).

A picture from last week may help visualize this.

Attachment:
IMG_2584 (1).jpeg


Jack thanks for sharing that. Beautiful panel by the way!! Is that a 500Txi or something newer? Also, what is your engine monitoring glass (i.e. model number). Very slick! GTN-750 on the right? Also, does your wx radar integrate into that display or is that just wx feed from an ADSB source?

I'm most likely going to opt for two yoke's simply because I'm likely to get my MEI active again and train my two son's how to fly - and no way I'm doing that without the ability for quick control :)


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 Post subject: Re: Howdy - and wannabe future Baron 58 owner - need advice
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2022, 18:24 
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Joined: 06/02/22
Posts: 11
Post Likes: +2
Aircraft: Baron 58
Username Protected wrote:
I'm excited for you! The chase is a big part of the fun (well, except when it's not).

My only real feedback consists of 2 things.

First, try flying with an Aspen before you rule it out. You may find that you like its data presentation and field of view, or you may not. The integrated G500/G600 suite is sweet, but pricey, and buying one locks you in to Garmintopia until whatever time they decide to stop supporting it.

Second, if you decide to use a buyer's agent, Neal Schwartz has a stellar reputation here.

Good luck and keep us posted!



Thanks Paul, will do, and appreciate the advice. You're right... always hard to tell whether you are going to like it until you try it. I'll try to get the opportunity to try out the Aspen. I do have several models on my short list of planes that are Aspen equipped - so definitely not out of the running. Thanks also for your endorsement on Neal too... intending on writing him later to get in touch!

VR,
Chad


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 Post subject: Re: Howdy - and wannabe future Baron 58 owner - need advice
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2022, 18:29 
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Joined: 06/02/22
Posts: 11
Post Likes: +2
Aircraft: Baron 58
Username Protected wrote:
I would call BPPP recommended shops (like Beaver Air Services at DWH) and tell them you are looking for an off-market 58 for sale. I called about thirteen shops in the US, and found one that way.

Wife and I fly a '96 with steam gauges (but an older Sandel HSI) with a 530/430 and a GMX-200. KFC-200 works, and the plane has radar/boots/oxygen.


Chris, that's an outstanding tip! Never thought of that - and that could expand the possibilities. For the one you found... was it off market about to go on and the shop knew that, or how did that all play out.. just curious.

Also, is there any integration between the radar and the 430/530? Still learning about how Wx radar integrates into some of the avionics boxes, and when that started to be "a thing". Also, any advice on long range tanks or not? Do you have the 166G or 196G on your bird? Thanks!

VR,
Chad


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 Post subject: Re: Howdy - and wannabe future Baron 58 owner - need advice
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2022, 18:33 
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Joined: 06/02/22
Posts: 11
Post Likes: +2
Aircraft: Baron 58
Username Protected wrote:
The 58 Baron is the ultimate “can do” airplane. I owned one.

But, I want to throw in there that my E55 with the extended baggage door was just as comfortable (or more?) for 4 adults and bags as the 58. The E55 with 3 reclining seats gives full forward facing leg extension for wife and passengers and was hard to beat. You could have the dog on a pillow between the rear passengers. In the E55 the bags all fit behind the passengers and in the nose baggage. In the 58 you will end up with bags and stuff in the club area when you have 4 adults. Six adults is not happening in the E55, but six in the 58 will need to be a short ride because it will be a game of aviation Twister. YMMV.


Thanks Tom, appreciate the tip on the E55. I will say that the barn doors were also a big attraction for family in getting in and out (and my wife is likely going to opt for sitting in the back mostly - so getting in and out has to be easy - or else I might be non-hangered, lol). But I chuckled on the twister comment. Would be interested to hear in others experience in hauling passengers on some longer trips in the barn-door/crew seating configuration - comfortable or no?


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 Post subject: Re: Howdy - and wannabe future Baron 58 owner - need advice
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2022, 22:26 
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Joined: 02/14/09
Posts: 6071
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Company: tomdrew.lawyer
Location: Des Moines, IA (KDSM)
Aircraft: 1973 Baron E55
With my 58 I took out the rear facing seat behind the copilot and the back forward facing seat on pilot’s side. That way copilot can lean back. As the pilot, we are used to having the seat more upright so passenger behind the pilot can lean back some. Also, when just one or two people are flying it’s easy to throw stuff in behind the copilot so you can reach it.

But, as always, YMMV. :thumbup:

_________________
C340A/8KCAB/T182T
F33C/E55/B58
PA 28/32
Currency 12 M: IPC/BFR, CFII Renewal


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