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 Post subject: Just joined Beech Talk
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2021, 20:54 
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Hello everyone. I just joined Beech Talk. I’ve been flying for 19 years. I’ve never owned a plane - but with nearly 800 hours renting Piper Cherokees, Piper Arrows and occasionally a Beechcraft Duchess, I’m chopping at the bit. I was really going down the path of buying a Piper Saratoga. I recently flew a gorgeous 2005 Saratoga and I was shocked to discover the pilot seat was cramped, the controls felt heavy and the visibility (while turning and scanning for traffic) was limited - unlike my experiences flying the Arrow. I just couldn’t commit to buying it. I then flew a Cirrus SR22. Very nice. I thought about a Piper Seneca but I don’t want to deal with the turbos - they’re all turbo equipped.

I love the look of the Baron 58 - 1984 and newer - but geez…. 32 GPH?

I’m told the Baron is rock solid. How’s the maintenance and reliability ?

I’d love to hear your feedback.


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 Post subject: Re: Just joined Beech Talk
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2021, 23:18 
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Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 30426
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Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
Username Protected wrote:
Hello everyone. I just joined Beech Talk. I’ve been flying for 19 years. I’ve never owned a plane - but with nearly 800 hours renting Piper Cherokees, Piper Arrows and occasionally a Beechcraft Duchess, I’m chopping at the bit. I was really going down the path of buying a Piper Saratoga. I recently flew a gorgeous 2005 Saratoga and I was shocked to discover the pilot seat was cramped, the controls felt heavy and the visibility (while turning and scanning for traffic) was limited - unlike my experiences flying the Arrow. I just couldn’t commit to buying it. I then flew a Cirrus SR22. Very nice. I thought about a Piper Seneca but I don’t want to deal with the turbos - they’re all turbo equipped.

I love the look of the Baron 58 - 1984 and newer - but geez…. 32 GPH?

I’m told the Baron is rock solid. How’s the maintenance and reliability ?

I’d love to hear your feedback.

Well to start with, you can fly a IO550 powered B58 on a lot less than 32 GPH. I fly a booted IO520 powered B55 with VGs (clean wing 55s are a few knots faster) and mine will do 180 KTAS on 23 GPH (or less if I'm willing to stick hoses up my nose).

IIRC a late model 58 can be flown at 180 KTAS on 25-26 GPH in the 8000-11100 MSL range if operated LOP.

WRT maint and reliability, Barons don't require much more maintenance dollars than similarly equipped Bonanzas except that like any twin, the engine budget is doubled.

It is true that the cost of parts from Beech can be breathtaking but if you're willing to put in a little effort you can usually find more reasonably priced alternatives and these airplanes do have a well deserved reputation for robustness so you don't often need those expensive parts. The best news is that parts are generally available, new from Beech, new from aftermarket suppliers, and used from salvage yards.

Another attraction is that Barons are a delight to fly. They're fairly stable but also relatively light on the controls.

P.S. Welcome to BeechTalk, the most civilized pilot's forum on the internet.

_________________
-lance

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


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 Post subject: Re: Just joined Beech Talk
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 09:11 
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Joined: 02/17/12
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Location: Madison, WI (KMSN)
Aircraft: 1981 Bonanza F33A
Welcome to Beechtalk Kevin.


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 Post subject: Re: Just joined Beech Talk
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 09:35 
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Lance - Thanks very much for your prompt reply. 180kts, 8000-11000 MSL and LOP - burning 24-26 total GPH is much more doable than my estimate of 32-34 GPH. I’d love to have 180kts all day long.

What do you think about seating space for the pilot & copilot?

I’m 6-1”. 205 lbs - with a “retired” athletic build (a little more area for the lap belt to hold onto these days). I found the Piper Saratoga seat cramped. I once sat in the pilot seat of a 1980’s B55 - and it too was cramped and tight for me.

Do you know if there were design changes from the B55 to the B58?

Any thoughts about the comfortability seating area for a mid-1990s B58?


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 Post subject: Re: Just joined Beech Talk
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 09:42 
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Joined: 10/22/14
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Location: Jacksonville (CRG) / Sebring (SEF) FL
Aircraft: '79 TN F33A
If you add where you are from to your profile I bet someone will invite you to sample the goods. Careful the Beech addiction is real.


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 Post subject: Re: Just joined Beech Talk
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 13:02 
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Joined: 12/10/07
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Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
Username Protected wrote:
Lance - Thanks very much for your prompt reply. 180kts, 8000-11000 MSL and LOP - burning 24-26 total GPH is much more doable than my estimate of 32-34 GPH. I’d love to have 180kts all day long.

What do you think about seating space for the pilot & copilot?

I’m 6-1”. 205 lbs - with a “retired” athletic build (a little more area for the lap belt to hold onto these days). I found the Piper Saratoga seat cramped. I once sat in the pilot seat of a 1980’s B55 - and it too was cramped and tight for me.

Do you know if there were design changes from the B55 to the B58?

Any thoughts about the comfortability seating area for a mid-1990s B58?


All the Bonanza and Baron cockpits have the same width at the front seats which is adequate unless the two up front are "extra wide" at shoulder waist height. Later models have slightly deeper recesses in the interior side panels for forearms and elbows.

Tall pilots generally fit pretty well unless all of their height is in the torso in which case they may have a headroom issue, something that's significantly affected by the depth of the seat cushion (some are thicker than others, very few if any have a height adjustment).

The 58 cabin is 10 inches longer than the 55 cabin and all of the extra length is forward of the main spar which sits a few inches behind the pilot's knees in a 55 vs pretty much directly below their navel in a 58. Because the front seats are moved forward in a 58 compared to a 55, that extra cabin length doesn't result in much if any extra legroom for the front seats.

You might not have been aware of it but the pilot's rudder pedals have two positions and if they were in the aft position, a tall pilot would feel cramped.

In the common 58 cabin arrangement with the 2nd row seats facing aft the rearward movement of the seat and/or seatback is restricted by the seat behind it.

But because the seat cushions vary from plane to plane you may find that you fit better in some Barons than others regardless of the model or year. When I first got my B55 I had a partner who was 6' 3" and weighed about 240 lbs. He fit just fine but two of him side by side would have been tight. I'm 5' 10" and 165-175 lbs and have plenty of room.

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-lance

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


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 Post subject: Re: Just joined Beech Talk
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 13:22 
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Lance

Thanks again. Your detailed account about seats and your old 6’-3” partner gives me hope. We’re on vacation this week - enjoying the beach at Oak Island. About an hour ago a Baron flew along the beach - over my head around 1000’ - en route to Cape Fear Regional (SUT). I was drooling. I’m just going to have to try a couple B58s (like Goldilocks) to see what fits.

Much appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Just joined Beech Talk
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 16:33 
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Joined: 02/10/12
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Company: Minister of Pith
Location: Florida
Aircraft: Piper PA28/140
Username Protected wrote:
Lance - Thanks very much for your prompt reply. 180kts, 8000-11000 MSL and LOP - burning 24-26 total GPH is much more doable than my estimate of 32-34 GPH. I’d love to have 180kts all day long.

What do you think about seating space for the pilot & copilot?

I’m 6-1”. 205 lbs - with a “retired” athletic build (a little more area for the lap belt to hold onto these days). I found the Piper Saratoga seat cramped. I once sat in the pilot seat of a 1980’s B55 - and it too was cramped and tight for me.

Do you know if there were design changes from the B55 to the B58?

Any thoughts about the comfortability seating area for a mid-1990s B58?

Welcome aboard!

I'm surprised the PA32 feels cramped; I'm about same build based on your numbers (44L jacket, 34" inseam.) Saratoga is definitely wider by several inches than a Cherokee, so it can't be shoulders. I've found that "larger" planes don't necessarily translate to more room for the pilot. A C340 was surprisingly tight for me.

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"No comment until the time limit is up."


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 Post subject: Re: Just joined Beech Talk
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2021, 20:55 
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Tom
It was a real surprise to me too. I’m a low-wing, Piper guy through and through. I found this gorgeous Piper Saratoga online - drove 15 hours round trip to see it (convinced ‘this’ was the airplane for me). And after a 1 hour flight I couldn’t pull the trigger to buy it. It just wasn’t the right fit (literally).


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