banner
banner

29 Mar 2024, 04:46 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Yet another new member, not yet a pilot or owner :(
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 17:44 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/24/17
Posts: 49
Post Likes: +26
Location: Seattle area
Aircraft: Looking for my Bo!
Good afternoon! I've spent the past couple days reading everything I can get my hands on regarding flying because it's finally becoming something I can get into.

My wife and i started a business recently and it's taking off well. As part of my promise to help her start 'her dream' business, she promised me that I'd get to learn how to fly! Yes she's fantastic.

This is currently several months out because our business is still a baby having opened our doors only a month ago, but the biz has blasted all of our projected numbers out of the water and moved up my flying timetable.

My history: I'm 31, my father was a pilot and a Beechcraft salesman for a time (he always told stories of demonstration flights of the aerobatic Bonanza; he loved that airplane more than any of us kids I think) and as a sort of nod to my father, my plan is to purchase a Bonanza at some point in the near future. I've already done a discovery flight where the pilot I went with (a CFI) was impressed with my flying ability due to tons of hours spent on simulators and he actually had me land the plane (not sure how common that is on discovery flights, he told me he'd only done it once before out of hundreds of flights). I'm absolutely hooked on flying; I spend far more time in a flight sim program than any normal 'game' on a computer.

So, where am I going from here? What I would *love* would be to save up some money from the business profits, buy myself an aircraft, and train on it, though some folks have tried to talk me out of it (why?). Sidney Wakeham seems to be doing it and he's in my neck of the woods as well (Pacific NW) but his instructor is several hours away and it probably wouldn't work out for me to work with him. I guess it's tough to find a CFI who will train in your plane, and hard to get insurance to insure you in a complex high-performance Bo while you train? I honestly don't know where to start when trying to budget out these insurance costs so any help there would be great to have.

My first instinct is to take a few weeks off of my day job to dive in to flight training and try and get it all done at once so I don't have a lot of repetition. That shouldn't be an issue at work. Once I get the PPL done, I'm really thinking it would be good to get CPL, IR, and work towards CFI so I can make flying my job. I understand it doesn't pay very well (probably only 1/3 of what I make now) but I think I'd enjoy it a lot more and with the business doing so well my income shouldn't be quite as necessary.

For my aircraft, I'm hoping for an 'older' but not ancient plane, something in the 60's through to the 80's, with a moderate amount of time. I might get shot down from this forum for saying so but I think I like the look of the 33 and 36 series better than the V tail, but I wouldn't turn down a 35 if one happened to be available for the right price. My 'mission' would be pleasure flying and vacation flying, heading from Seattle to Alaska or Oregon to California; I have family in both Portland and Roseburg OR and it would be neat to be able to fly to Portland, pick up the sister and her husband and go down to Roseburg to see grandma and stay a couple days. Since that would be 4 people and bags I probably should look at a 36, but I know the smaller planes should be able to make those jumps with partial fuel (it's only 150 nm from Seattle to Portland and another 155 again from Portland to Roseburg). But if I go with the 36 there's room for the dogs!

Anyways, those are my plans; please tell me what you think or what you would do differently! If you have any suggestions as to flight instruction and my plan to purchase a plane to fly in please chime in.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Yet another new member, not yet a pilot or owner :(
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 10:51 
Offline



User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 09/03/13
Posts: 1720
Post Likes: +1678
Company: airline has-been
Location: NashvilleClarksville , TN (6TN1)
Aircraft: 1956 Bonanza 35
Greetings and welcome. The basic premise of training in your own airplane is sound. I see no problem with the added lessons of complex/high performance. Otherwise the Bonanza is easy to fly. The pros and cons of buying your own airplane has been discussed elsewhere in BT, so you might try searching. I think the consensus is that there is no need to start out in something more basic, but the financial advantage could go either way. Operating cost for something capable of that payload is likely to be higher than a C152 which, for your first 40 hours offers little training advantage. There is a difference between having 500 hours versus having the same hour 500 times, experiencing flight in different models can be greater than the sum of the parts. Only you know your resources and resolve, and I think it boils down to that. One hiccup in your business might leave that airplane sitting. Training from the start in one airplane will make you very good, in that airplane. First learned, best learned. If you know in your heart that you will see it through, then buying the right airplane might leave you ahead of the game financially, the operative point being “the right airplane”. I see risk there.

I like your idea of blocking some time to move through your training quickly, but be careful to give yourself ample time between events to digest what you have learned. Finally I will add that, from my experience, you can tell a lot about future success from the first flight. It sounds like you are made of the right stuff. Good luck.

_________________
Pay forward what you can't pay back.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Yet another new member, not yet a pilot or owner :(
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 10:59 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/16/10
Posts: 8885
Post Likes: +1954
Will welcome to BT!

Sounds like you have a plan and some options to explore.
Congrats on your business success! :thumbup:

_________________
If you think nobody cares about you. Try not paying your income tax.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Yet another new member, not yet a pilot or owner :(
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 11:25 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/27/13
Posts: 255
Post Likes: +242
Location: KTBR
Aircraft: Cessna 182M
I saved quite a bit of money by buying my plane and training in it, rather than dealing with a rental.

My only comment would be that if ethanol-free unleaded is available at gas stations in your area, and you're willing/capable to haul fuel, then one of the earlier Bonanzas that has a MOGAS STC available can save you nearly half on your fuel costs - when I figured it out the difference between buying AVGAS and MOGAS is approximately equal to the cost of a new engine at TBO...

Glad to hear things are going well, and welcome. :)


Top

 Post subject: Re: Yet another new member, not yet a pilot or owner :(
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 11:37 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/04/10
Posts: 3539
Post Likes: +3198
Aircraft: C55, PC-12
Wow! Congrats on starting a business and exceeding your expectations. I've started many and know a lot of others who have and none of us ever exceeded our initial projections.

I'm so jaded after seeing all of my own challenges in business that I can't help but recommend that you poke some money away before spending it on flying. If the business is really that good, I'd be thinking about using the money to double down on the business - then you can go straight to the jet!

_________________
John Lockhart
Phoenix, AZ
Ridgway, CO


Top

 Post subject: Re: Yet another new member, not yet a pilot or owner :(
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 19:49 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/24/17
Posts: 49
Post Likes: +26
Location: Seattle area
Aircraft: Looking for my Bo!
Username Protected wrote:
I saved quite a bit of money by buying my plane and training in it, rather than dealing with a rental.

My only comment would be that if ethanol-free unleaded is available at gas stations in your area, and you're willing/capable to haul fuel, then one of the earlier Bonanzas that has a MOGAS STC available can save you nearly half on your fuel costs - when I figured it out the difference between buying AVGAS and MOGAS is approximately equal to the cost of a new engine at TBO...

Glad to hear things are going well, and welcome. :)


What aircraft did you buy to train in? If it was a Bonanza, did you have any trouble finding an instructor or insurance?

Thanks everyone for the welcome!


Top

 Post subject: Re: Yet another new member, not yet a pilot or owner :(
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2017, 00:11 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/27/13
Posts: 255
Post Likes: +242
Location: KTBR
Aircraft: Cessna 182M
Username Protected wrote:
What aircraft did you buy to train in? If it was a Bonanza, did you have any trouble finding an instructor or insurance?

Thanks everyone for the welcome!

I was boring. Bought a 172 to train in, sold it for more than I paid for it on the day it came to market, then moved to a 182.

Hindsight suggests the 182 from the start might have made more sense, but I've got no regrets. I also sometimes wish I'd bought a Bo instead, but I don't have the budget for a 36, and some of my friends are former college linemen, so the 182 does fine. It's slow though, and noticeably less economical than a bonanza. When I mentioned Mogas before: a V-tail drinking avgas is cheaper per mile on fuel than my 182 on mogas, plus it's faster.

It's all in the trade-offs you're comfortable with. :)


Top

 Post subject: Re: Yet another new member, not yet a pilot or owner :(
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2017, 12:34 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/16/14
Posts: 8633
Post Likes: +10461
Company: Forever a Student Pilot
Location: Colfax Washington
Aircraft: 1947 Bonanza 35
Will, Congrats, on finding Beectalk :clap: And Welcome :thumbup: These Folks here are Truly The Best :clap: I'm flattered that You mentioned Me in Your thread :) :oops:

I may not encourage you to go down the path I have taken, (Bonanza) that is :shrug: an older one, and lightweight one 1947- 1956, although easy and FUN to Fly, with the right Instructor, could be a HUGE MONEY PIT :bugeye:

I think that buying your own Airplane to learn in, is a Great Idea! Nothing more Gratifying, than Pride in Ownership :D

If you are Hell bent on Buying an older Bonanza, you have to be very patient, in finding the right one ;), and the difference being, working on it for a Year, to get it into shape, or Flying it! ;) Beechtalk would be one of the best places to Look, but not the Only Place :) Just ask Lots of Questions, and do a Lot of Reading!

I'll send you a PM, with my Phone # and you can call Me anytime :D

Good Luck with the New Business, and I hope You make Lots of Money$$$$, cuz you're going to need it! :bugeye: This Flying Business Stuff, is addictive ;)

Again Welcome to Beech Talk Young Man! :bud:

_________________
Could You be Nice Sometimes?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Yet another new member, not yet a pilot or owner :(
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2017, 13:20 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/24/17
Posts: 49
Post Likes: +26
Location: Seattle area
Aircraft: Looking for my Bo!
Username Protected wrote:
Will, Congrats, on finding Beectalk And Welcome These Folks here are Truly The Best :clap: I'm flattered that You mentioned Me in Your thread :)

I may not encourage you to go down the path I have taken, (Bonanza) that is :shrug: an older one, and lightweight one 1947- 1956, although easy and FUN to Fly, with the right Instructor, could be a HUGE MONEY PIT

I think that buying your own Airplane to learn in, is a Great Idea! Nothing more Gratifying, than Pride in Ownership :D

If you are Hell bent on Buying an older Bonanza, you have to be very patient, in finding the right one ;), and the difference being, working on it for a Year, to get it into shape, or Flying it! ;) Beechtalk would be one of the best places to Look, but not the Only Place :) Just ask Lots of Questions, and do a Lot of Reading!

I'll send you a PM, with my Phone # and you can call Me anytime :D

Good Luck with the New Business, and I hope You make Lots of Money$$$$, cuz you're going to need it! :bugeye: This Flying Business Stuff, is addictive ;)

Again Welcome to Beech Talk Young Man! :bud:

Sidney,

It was fantastic talking with you this morning, and I expect it'll be the first of many conversations. Since you're going through exactly what I want to go through, I really hope you won't mind me leaning on you for your experience and especially for your contacts who know the answers to questions that you and I both don't know. I'm going to take some time here soon to start that list you told me to start!

As far as which bird to choose, I'm really thinking it would make the most sense to get a 36 series if I can save up the $$ for it; I expect to be looking at a late 60's or early 70's model. I realize that's well into triple digit costs, so I will be doing a lot of penny pinching to get there! Buying a cream puff vs. a fixer is a tough call for me; I kind of want some newer avionics, so I feel like it may make more sense to buy a fixer and have a newer panel put in as part of the upgrades. I dunno yet, I'm still so early on in this journey that I'm just tossing out ideas.

Thanks again everyone, and keep the suggestions coming if you have any thoughts for me!


Top

 Post subject: Re: Yet another new member, not yet a pilot or owner :(
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2017, 15:36 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/05/12
Posts: 6479
Post Likes: +4522
Location: Portland, OR (KHIO)
Aircraft: 1962 Bonanza P35
Username Protected wrote:
As far as which bird to choose, I'm really thinking it would make the most sense to get a 36 series if I can save up the $$ for it; I expect to be looking at a late 60's or early 70's model. I realize that's well into triple digit costs, so I will be doing a lot of penny pinching to get there! Buying a cream puff vs. a fixer is a tough call for me; I kind of want some newer avionics, so I feel like it may make more sense to buy a fixer and have a newer panel put in as part of the upgrades. I dunno yet, I'm still so early on in this journey that I'm just tossing out ideas.

Thanks again everyone, and keep the suggestions coming if you have any thoughts for me!



Pay now or pay later. You can spread it out if you pay later, but it will cost you more in the long run than just paying it up front, especially with avionics.

_________________
Paul
I heart flying

ABS Lifetime Member
EAA Lifetime Member


Top

 Post subject: Re: Yet another new member, not yet a pilot or owner :(
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2017, 20:08 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/24/17
Posts: 49
Post Likes: +26
Location: Seattle area
Aircraft: Looking for my Bo!
Username Protected wrote:
As far as which bird to choose, I'm really thinking it would make the most sense to get a 36 series if I can save up the $$ for it; I expect to be looking at a late 60's or early 70's model. I realize that's well into triple digit costs, so I will be doing a lot of penny pinching to get there! Buying a cream puff vs. a fixer is a tough call for me; I kind of want some newer avionics, so I feel like it may make more sense to buy a fixer and have a newer panel put in as part of the upgrades. I dunno yet, I'm still so early on in this journey that I'm just tossing out ideas.

Thanks again everyone, and keep the suggestions coming if you have any thoughts for me!



Pay now or pay later. You can spread it out if you pay later, but it will cost you more in the long run than just paying it up front, especially with avionics.


So you're telling me it's probably not the best idea to buy this way too cheap pile of whoknowswhat and pulling out that poor sunburnt panel to put in something better? :scratch:

I usually don't like those sorts of projects, and that airframe is so cheap it makes you really wonder.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Yet another new member, not yet a pilot or owner :(
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2017, 20:50 
Offline



User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 09/03/13
Posts: 1720
Post Likes: +1678
Company: airline has-been
Location: NashvilleClarksville , TN (6TN1)
Aircraft: 1956 Bonanza 35
Username Protected wrote:

So you're telling me it's probably not the best idea to buy this way too cheap pile of whoknowswhat and pulling out that poor sunburnt panel to put in something better? :scratch:

I usually don't like those sorts of projects, and that airframe is so cheap it makes you really wonder.


That airplane is not so unusual. I bought a G35 very much like it for 32,500, and saw several others in that range at the time. All with current annuals. Also not so unusual is a family asking a bit too much under the circumstances of the pilot’s death. I have since spent over 20K on an updated panel. I can’t tell if AP means autopilot, if it has one that’s a real advantage. Also, I think the advertisers are confused on which engine it has. I don’t think there’s a way to get 260 Hp out of an E185.

I do like my G35, do wish I had an autopilot in hindsight

_________________
Pay forward what you can't pay back.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Yet another new member, not yet a pilot or owner :(
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2017, 14:11 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/05/12
Posts: 6479
Post Likes: +4522
Location: Portland, OR (KHIO)
Aircraft: 1962 Bonanza P35
Username Protected wrote:
So you're telling me it's probably not the best idea to buy this way too cheap pile of whoknowswhat and pulling out that poor sunburnt panel to put in something better? :scratch:

I usually don't like those sorts of projects, and that airframe is so cheap it makes you really wonder.


Depends on what you want the end result to be. If you want /A IFR equipped plane that's a two person, maybe 2 more if they are small kids, it might be okay. If I were going to buy a $25,000 Bonanza I'd spend the money for detail prebuy inspection from a knowledgable A&P to know what it needs done. You might run across the unicorn barn find, but odds are it could need $10k-$30k of work on the airframe.

If you want a modern WAAS GPS and decent autopilot, you'll come out ahead finding something that already has it installed vs. doing the panel upgrade.

_________________
Paul
I heart flying

ABS Lifetime Member
EAA Lifetime Member


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.midwest2.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.dbm.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.Marsh.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.daytona.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.SCA.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.camguard.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.