Greetings. Currently flying a Piper Archer; considering a Sundowner. I've never flown a Sundowner, but here's what I've heard:

Archer is more expensive, cruises/climbs a little faster, easy to fly, less expensive to maintain. They made a gazillion cherokees so parts are readily available.

Sundowner is less expensive, much more comfortable over long flights, folks love having a door on the pilot's side, Beechcraft product is higher quality overall.

Archer I'm in has a G430W, which I love. Sundowner I'm looking at has an autopilot, which I've been told I'll love when I begin instrument training.

Really appreciate the previous experience of others. Thanks very much.

Longer I do this, the more I find the market is efficient. A few people love Sundowners, a lot of them wither away. The Archer is tried and true.

Another issues is that model differences in this case will be overwhelmed by airframe to airframe differences between the two specific planes you mention.

The two are similar enough in performance that I would not see trading one for the other. If you want a reason to sell your Archer, get a Bonanza!

I have owned an Archer and a Bonanza, and I actually can get better gas mileage, at a faster speed, in the Bonanza. Tuned fuel injectors running lean of,peak vs. carburetor running rich of,peak. Obviously the maintenance complexity is higher on the Bonanza.

I would rather hand fly IFR in an Archer with a 430w than have an autopilot and VOR/ADF in a Sundowner. Just personal preference.

The Sundowner will very moderately over perform against the 160 Hp or less Pipers and very moderately under perform against the 180 Hp Pipers. Either way, it's not really significant.

You can get a Sundowner in much better condition and better equipped than a comparably priced Piper. If you want to sell it later, the Archer will sell for more (don't forget that it cost more too) and a little faster, but not by much.

Maintenance costs are comparable. O-360 engines are pretty common. If you join BAC you will never have trouble finding parts (unless you try to find an aerobatic conversion kit - don't even try that).

It will be cheaper to add a Garmin GTN 650 to a Sundowner than to add an autopilot to the Archer. That said, you really don't need an autopilot for instrument training, or for actual IMC for that matter.

The Sundowner is more comfortable (hence the slight performance hit), sturdier, and generally higher quality. You will get more "nice plane" comments on the ramp with the Sundowner, but do you really own a plane because you care about what other people think of it?

People will tell you the Sundowner is hard to land. You will find that these are people who have never flown a Sundowner or Musketeer. Both the Sundowner and Cherokee series are easy, forgiving, stable platforms.

The second door is nice.

The Sundowner will have greater range with the ability to take on 60 gallons of fuel. Both the Sundowner and Archer have range that exceeds your passenger's bladder tolerance, so this is only an issue when solo with a travel john or comparable.

Both are good. You are in a position of having two good choices where neither would be a mistake. Decide what is more important/preferable to you and make a decision. Fly often, post pics, and make trip reports.

Bill

I have enough experience in both aircraft to perhaps help.

Sundowner offers 58 gal of fuel, meaning 5 hr of range with 1 hr reserve. Approx 850 lb useful load. Aerobatic load capibility of +6, -3 g load with two spars. Widest/tallest cabin in class even wider and taller than the Baron or Bonanza, meaning more knee flex allowing for longer flights. Two doors up front, meaning easy to get fuel without unloading you front passenger. The front seats are slightly ahead of the leading edge, meaning great visibility all around. Up to 270 lbs of baggage due to superior floor construction. Awesome 0-360 180 hp engine with Powerflow option. No known carb ice issues due to design of the carb placement under the warm oil pan. Only one reoccurring AD for 100-hr visual elev stab hinge inspection, which only takes about .3 hr from a AP mechanic. Insurance is really reasonable, around $580/yr for full hull and zero deductible. Trailing link, shock-biscuit gear legs, no oleo mtc, but you may need to replace biscuits every 20 years. I never had any hums in my electrical system, first airplane ever that was that quite. Excellent support from the very active Beech Aero Club.

The Archer offers slightly faster speed, around 122 kts vs 116 kts on the Sundowner. Slightly wider CG range. 48 gal fuel. Optional A/C, which is awesome. Wheel pants with likely affords the speed advantage.

Both aircraft. Same fuel burn, same annual- 14 shop hrs plus any repairs. Same fixed-pitch Sen prop. Same tires, which I preferred the shorter 15" tall.

Hope this helps,
James

Welcome, James!

You're getting some good input already, so no much else I can offer.

The autopilot is indeed a nice feature when IFR - it allows you to brief plates and things while reducing your focus on the actual flying. Note I said "reduce your focus" not eliminate it.

Doc

Gentlemen, thank you very, very much for your information. I thought I'd receive this much response over a few days, not a few hours. Really appreciate it.

Have no idea what I'm going to do, but I appreciate it.

The ultimate mission of whichever airplane I fly is to transport myself and my wife to destinations from North Carolina to Florida. I'm intrigued by the potential "comfort factor" of the Sundowner, and feel like it's worth a look, though I'm not sure it will ultimately be worth switching planes.

There are other factors at work here as well. Both planes are in partnerships, but the Sundowner partnership share is exactly 1/2 the cost of my Archer partnership share. Also, the Sundowner is based closer to my home by about 30 minutes.

Great forum you have here.

This would be the most significant consideration, IMHO. If you want to fly more and get the most utility out of your ownership, this will do it.

I'm a big fan of Sundowners and think the comfort boost and much easier entry (climb in vs. plop down) are their biggest benefits. They truly make a difference. They are safe, easy fliers.

30 minutes closer??!!

SUNDOWNER

So a 200nm trip is gonna take about 55 minutes longer in the Archer.

Where in NC are you located? There's a good chance that I, or someone else, can give you a demo flight in a Sundowner. I'm in the Cary/Raleigh area and base my Sundowner out of TTA near Sanford.

My most common mission is my wife and I to visit family in SC, GA, FL. The Sundowner is great for that mission profile.

30 minutes closer for 1/2 the cost? Unless there's some other background (e.g. 1/2 share on the Archer vs 1/5 share on the Sundowner, one partner is a total jerk, etc.) then it seems like a straightforward call.

Bill

Thanks for the offer Bill. I'm in the Triad area. I'll probably just contact the Sundowner owner and arrange a visit.

The partnership I'm in now is first-rate, top notch. Great group of guys. It's the economics that has me considering a change.

I vote for an autopilot, a great item to have.
Not mandatory, but great to have.

After renting an Archer with AP for a couple years, then buying my Sundowner and now having been flying it for 2 years (218 hours) I can say I definitely agree with W. Beach's earlier post above, hands down.