nm

Hi Brian. Welcome to BT.
One of the common themes in this thread is a competitively priced 4 seater. I like Max's idea.
I love my F33A but the only thing keeping me from flying it forever is the CG issue. When my 7 and 9 year old get bigger, I will need the 36. The only new Beech I would consider is a G33 with a better CG. Otherwise it will be a 79-83 A36. Add a pilot door, flashy luxurious interior and you will have some serious sales. Also, bring back the center column for those who like a single yoke.

V tails NEVER get to park in front of E Barons! never ever allowed

Throw a regular tail on the Skipper.

Bring back the Mouse. Make a super Mouse version with a 235hp with a ton of useful load and two regular doors. Piper ceded the whole "high performance" fixed gear market to Cessna when they discontinued the Dakota, and there are folks out there who'd like a choice.

How about a Duchess with TSIO-360s?

Continuing support for the fleet is essential. Start with the prices for parts.

Best,
Rich Wheeler

Hi Bryan,

You're a brave man.

I don't expect my finances/situation will ever allow me to buy a new beech... and what do I know about running a airplane business... just a dumb ole country boy...but I'll add my 0.02 anyway.

1. The airplane business has always been a tough way to make $.... nothing has changed... except recently it has been worse...

2. We really all want beech to survive and be prosperous... this is "Beechtalk" for a reason.

3. it looks like parts support to a large aging fleet could be a big profit center to the company... but the parts department need some major changes.

4. To be more competitive the G36 needs better performance...
a. better UL b. more speed c. more fuel d.. option of known ice.

a. My A36 had a full avionics install with the heavy avionics of the day... and was weighed at 2270 pounds on retail delivery in Oct 1975.

What do most of the current G36's go out the door???

The only thing I see on them worth having is the 75? pounds worth of A/C... maybe some of the backup systems??
We won't debate reasons for the dual controls and spar carry through redo... that added extra weight..... but geeze... she's gotten fat...
Put the old gal on a DIET... get rid of weight everywhere possible...

b. speed... maybe aerodynamic clean up of the cowl, fairings, ect?? could be done economically under the type certificate
Turbo normalizing is a quick speed mod ...maybe bigger engine hp??
Diesel's don't excite me in an airplane... been around for years.. and not common yet...
Still need a piston engine in the entry level airplanes. the leaded fuel situation doesn't help.
c. A b36 wing would be nice... tip tanks are easy enough
d. TKS option??

5. I think Beech really needs to spend the $ to get good market research data.
Who are your buyers?
What do your buyers want?
Why are you loosing sales to brand X?
Where do you need to spend precious R&D dollars for the future?

6. I'm unconvinced you will sell a bunch of 4 seat airplanes if they were brought back to production. Most beech buyers like the cabin/better payload/utility doors on the -36's.
That said... it would be easy enough to have potiental buyers make 100% refundable deposits and place them in an escrow account.. with the stipulation you needed 20?? 30?? 50?? deposits to start making a G33 airplane.
Might even do it for a 33-C... aerobatic bonanza...
Read... test the waters...

7. At some point beech needs some "clean sheet" designs...for the future.
Four adults and baggage, fuel for a minimum of 800 nm non-stop... 200 knots piston engine..... minimum for my entry level machine.
You'll need your market research to see if you can compete in the step up...single turbine pressurized market.

8. I think Glenn Smith's idea has lots of good will and merit.

9. Of course... WDIK!

Leldon

Gotta agree with you about the V-tails!

As far as getting back to their roots, I think you're absolutely right. Just as long as they remember that getting back to their roots does not mean shipping the same product they designed in the 1940s! Their roots are in producing an airplane that is decades ahead of its time, which they did back then, and they need to do that again.

I have to agree with the others that suggest working with the guys in Ada if Beech decides to develop a piston plane. GAMIs should be stock equipment. I'd also work with them on developing some sort of FADEC. I know that's a highly unpopular idea on BT, but the fact is that we all read Eckalbar's "Flying by the Numbers" chapter where he reduces engine management to a fictional system with 7 buttons. The technology to build that system can now be had for probably $100 (I fancy myself a robotics hobbyist). There's no excuse for it not to be included in an $800k airplane. Give me one lever for the engine. The guys at GAMI/TAT will help you program the thing to optimally perform LOP climbs, cruise, and descent. It'll automatically lean brutally on the ground, and lean properly for high DA takeoffs. It can perform a GAMI lean test and LOP mag check at the push of a button. None of this stuff needs to be done in a manual, error-prone way. Starting (cold or hot) should be as easy as pushing a button.

Which reminds me... have you noticed that cars don't require that you take your keys out of your pocket any more? Have you seen how the door handles on the Tesla Model S pop out when you approach the car? These are the types of things I'd expect to see Beech invent (or at least copy )! And these are the things that will surprise and delight potential customers.

Brian,

Welcome to Beechtalk! I've been following this thread and there are some good ideas here. However, I think the "new" Beech should spend the $25k or so it will take to do a proper buyer survey. There are a couple of things you are going to want to know: First why do Cirrus buyers choose their planes over a Beech (or Corvalis). Second, you need to know the same from new G36 buyers.

Many new Cirrus buyers are first time airplane owners, so it's not cost, or performance (perhaps number of doors or fixed gear?). However many established pilots seem to bypass Cirrus for a Beech -36. (I fall into the second category, although it won't be new when I buy it).

What you need to discover is what is important to those new buyers: space, range, technology, number of doors, fixed gear, handling, price? A survey is going to be only way to get usable data before you begin developing your product strategies. I agree that parts supply is important to existing owners. I would like to agree that aero cleanup would quadruple sales, but I doubt marginal fuel economy is enough of an issue when spending $700k on a plane.

Understanding your customers is going to be key as you move forward. Understanding those of your competitors perhaps even more so...

Who are the buyers of new aircraft selling at 1/2 to 3/4 of a million dollars? Two classes that I've noticed are: 1. Young and upwardly mobile professionals, a category that includes a lot of 30~45 years old doctors, lawyers, dentists, engineers, business managers, entreprenuers, etc. (Cirrus focuses on this group.). And, 2. The older and well-heeled set who can afford more airplane than a Bonanza, but want to fly a more simple plane to vacation homes and family destinations with their kid and grand-kids. Target advertising to those who subscribe to Forbes, JAMA, Robb Report, etc. Don't waste money on flying publications, just promote flying oneself and family, or employees, to the folks who have a dream, and few, if any, hours in a pilot log book. Beech did a great job of that in the fifties, sixties, and seventies. What worked then...well, it oughta work now. ???

AGREE! I'm in class 1, working hard to one day be in class 2. Create an option to buy new for us class 1 folks.

Brian You introduced yourself into a thread that has acknowledged 20,000 known and dedicated aficionados who all have opinions about your company and products. Most of them are good I suspect but we all get PO'd at the price of our parts from Rapid. I suspect that most of us have realized that Beech thinks that just since a new Baron is 1.3 million dollars, then the parts to build that plane ought to be 3 times that price when you buy them one at a time. Same thing for the rest of the fleet. We need some serious thought at Beech about how to fix that problem, and make Rapid the first place we go to for parts instead of the last place, which IMHO is how it is now. The spar repair kit is a first example of getting strapped into the barrel. I have had 3 Beech planes, 1 Debonair and two Barons, and two of the 3 have had to have the kits installed. I understand the labor, but the cost of the kit is really amazing for what we get to fix a problem that is just going to continue on as the fleet ages.

Beech is really not that different from an auto dealer. the success of the whole operation is dependent upon the whole operation, and most dealers will tell you that the back of the house if done right supports the front of the house. Get the planes out there and if you keep the customers happy, they will keep coming back for parts, and service and maybe a new one every now and then. Scare them off with high priced parts and long delays and they will go somewhere else next time.

You have and continue to make great airplanes. Most of ours are the envy of the ramp. We take pride in our airplanes, give them names even, and lavish all sorts of dollars on them. Help us stay in front with good product support and make some new things that will garner the customer support from the few people who can afford a new one. Only that will keep the values up on the old ones we keep pushing along.

Personally, I will probably never buy anything beyond my 58 Baron, but there is always the Powerball !!

Good luck with your new company. We need more guys like you asking those questions that might get answers that get back to your management so that you can be successful. America loves winners

PL

Been thinking . . . .

Avgas concerns . . . .

Want/need more HP and speed . . .

Go with the low-compression (think MOGAS) R985. 450 horses!

Okay, the retrofit could prove to be a bit challenging. We would have . . . a Spartan Executive!

Disregard.

Complicated market.

We have the initial buyer as Max has addressed.

We have a move up buyer that started in that first plane, but now needs more to meet his mission requirements and stay with Beech that can be a bigger plane and/or pressurization.

And we have that person that wants redundancy, pressurization and other systems that come with a twin all below the KA twin market. Each market sector needs to be looked at.

Best,

Dave

The core lines need to be the focus to begin, don't they?
Then, one can look at move up and other segments.
Does Beech look to be a force in the initial plane purchase segment?
If so, the four and six seat NA line is where to do.
If not, a plane that meets another need can be looked at.

Best,

Dave

Brian....if ya can't do all that other stuff, would be too much to at least ask for nice cup holders?


I hear the SR-22T has nice cup holders.....too.