BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Mar 2013, 20:35

Username Protected wrote:

Brian....if ya can't do all that other stuff, would be too much to at least ask for nice cup holders?

AMEN for some freaking cup holders! (and I am not talking about the silly indentations on the pedistal floor).

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Mar 2013, 21:08

Username Protected wrote:

The core lines need to be the focus to begin, don't they?
Then, one can look at move up and other segments.
Does Beech look to be a force in the initial plane purchase segment?
If so, the four and six seat NA line is where to do.
If not, a plane that meets another need can be looked at.

Best,

Dave

Dave,

I would question the move up concept. The concept of brand loyalty and staying with a single brand I think has largely passed by the generations younger than the baby boomers. Look at how quickly we change brands in fads and other items.
Look at the most succesful companies, excluding Cessna they do not compete in multiple market segments. Even Cessna has holes in the concept of step up. PC12, TBM, Cirrus, Embrear, Piper...

Tim

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Mar 2013, 21:49

They've got this figured out.
It's market segmentation 1.01
There are x GA planes sold per year worldwide.
The segments are: single engine NA, single engine TN or, single engine pressurized, etc, etc,
The company needs to make y airplanes per year to be profitable.
They can aspire to z % market share. And voila, we need to be in ABC market segment.
Or ABC and DEF segments if you have the capital (green and human). Strongly consider Brand image and position. VW Phaetons didn't sell (expensive VW counterintuitive) Small Cadillacs didn't sell (ditto) .
Once you have the segment, you figure out the price point and the feature set that goes with that price point. Thats where opinions come in to play as well as facts. the fun stuff. Just read this site. You get this from BOM's (no, a 300 knot 4 seater for 200 AMU is literally impossible) Then you validate the data through market research (quantitative and qualitative) (I get the feeling that's where Bill is at) then you start developing with lots of gates to revalidate.
Simple. Not easy, but simple.
:popcorn:

Yes, I do this for a living.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Mar 2013, 22:26

Username Protected wrote:

Dave,

I would question the move up concept. The concept of brand loyalty and staying with a single brand I think has largely passed by the generations younger than the baby boomers. Look at how quickly we change brands in fads and other items.
Look at the most succesful companies, excluding Cessna they do not compete in multiple market segments. Even Cessna has holes in the concept of step up. PC12, TBM, Cirrus, Embrear, Piper...

Tim

Yep! That's the type self examination they need to make to find the segment where they fit.

As far as move up, what could be done today to really make significant performance improvements in the old 58P or Duke? Small market (much as I like it) and nothing has really occurred that could show a large performance improvement other than going to turbine single. Is that worth designing from scratch? Do we want an old 58P or Duke with a turbine called a new plane?

How would Beech differentiate in the four to six seat NA market?

Best,

Dave

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Mar 2013, 00:45

Username Protected wrote:

Naturally I assume that everyone wants to carry more people, stuff, and fuel and you want to fly it as fast as possible.

No no ... everyone doesn't want to carry more and fly faster. When shopping for a used V-tail, I focused on the IO-470 engine models for pretty reasonable speed but with some economy at the same time. 150 kts plus is just fine. There is no way that I was interested in 15-17 gph in the 520 and 550 engines. Cost of just going around the pattern to practice landings would be out of sight. I'll bet there are a lot of us around.

By the way, this is fantastic that a real employee of Beechraft is a participant in BeechTalk. To bad companies like Intuit, Apple, Toyota, etc., don't take the risk you're taking. I just hope everyone treats you with respect and doesn't turn it in to a complaint office.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Mar 2013, 10:20

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Mar 2013, 10:26

Brian,

Can this list of ideas and requests in this thread somehow make it up the Beechcraft food chain to those at the apex trophic level (for decision-making)?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Mar 2013, 10:26

Putting on my marketing hat, one of the great things the other guys have done is to lower the barriers to entry. Cessna used to have their extensive network of Cessna Pilot Centers, which served to make training, aircraft rental, and eventually an aircraft purchase, an easy step-by-step process that had few fears. Cirrus has taken a similar approach, enabling a network of fractional ownerships. I get mailers all the time from the Cirrus outfit at Addison (KADS) wanting me to buy a piece using a time-share model. It is tempting, but I personally would rather have my own truly personal airplane, and I want it to be a Beech - something I decided after I flew a Sundowner for the first time.

Today, if you want a Beech you have to be 1) rich, because they cost near $1m new, 2) a fairly accomplished, experienced pilot, because they are all high powered complex aircraft. Why not copy Cirrus' approach, but with Beechcraft's superior products? There needs to be a low end "beginner" solution, and a way to step into a high performance TAA airplane later on. Fractional ownership inside a well run and supported dealership/fractional ownership operation is working well - for Cirrus.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Mar 2013, 10:33

If you make $370K or more, you are in the top 1% of the country......

See the problem?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Mar 2013, 10:36

Suggestion: Engineer a sleek, composite replacement for the A36. Sell it for less than the top level Cirrus.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Mar 2013, 10:43

OK....rookie....start designing cup holders!!!! :coffee:

Username Protected wrote:

I don't want anyone to misunderstand my involvement here. I'm here to learn as much as I can from the customer's perspective. I am not here as a representative of the company. I am most definitely NOT a company spokesman.

Just think of me as a rookie engineer who doesn't know anything about aviation.

Just a little background on me. I have always been wild about airplanes. When I was a kid my dad owned a couple of Cessna 150's. Later he got into ultralights (Weedhopper specifically). Dad was never content with leaving something alone. He ran a fiberglass repair buisiness. He made a couple of different kinds of nose pods for them for himself and for his buddies that he flew with. The Weedhopper company took notice and actually started buying them directly from him as part of a kit upgrade. Later on he made a full enclosed pod as an extension of the nose pod. The last Weedhopper he built was so heavily modified it was just silly (it wasn't technically an ultralight anymore either ha ha)

He started making fiberglass parts for several kit planes (can't remember all of them).

Around the late '80's he designed and built his own experimental airplane. It looked a lot like a Piper Cub but it was a single place. It was a fun little airplane. He also designed and built his own biplane. I can still remember all those nights working out in the shop with him and the smell of the dope.

We went to OSH every year we could. I loved every minute of it! :thumbup:

I was fascinated with it all....the 'how' and 'why' of aviation. Aeronautical engineering was a natural fit. I went to school at the University of Missouri-Rolla (Missouri University of Science & Technology).

Right after graduation I went to work for Lockheed Martin on the Joint Strike Fighter (2002) and worked there for 6 years. It was ok I guess but it was just such a big aircraft program. I worked on the propulsion system doing engine cycle modeling.

I came to work for Beech in 2008 and am now rediscovering my roots in aviation. :cheers:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Mar 2013, 10:51

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Mar 2013, 10:56

Username Protected wrote:

OK....rookie....start designing cup holders!!!! :coffee:

If we make cup holders to hold a big gulp, I suppose we could cut range requirements down.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Mar 2013, 10:57

Username Protected wrote:

OK....rookie....start designing cup holders!!!! :coffee:

If we make cup holders to hold a big gulp, I suppose we could cut range requirements down.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 14 Mar 2013, 11:01

Rookies are those guys who become responsible execs if they listen, learn and bring good ideas to the table. I think that most of the guys here recognize that having been rookies once ourselves. Beech is in transformation. Even if you just send on the link for BT to as many Beech execs who are in the business of formulating what the new business ought to look like then you will have done us all a great service. Now if they can read and listen to what 20,000 of their most faithful customers have to say then maybe there is hope for the future. Good luck in your endeavour at Beech and dont be afraid to rock the boat!!

pL

Hello.