Reposted from another thread (viewtopic.php?f=47&t=90396):

ok DEEP BREATH ... 1st post, on any forum ever ...

I can't think of any better way to glean information online, even if opinion based, than forums. I can follow threads & tangents for days picking up insights that either don't exist elsewhere or are not easily accessible. So I have been ALL OVER BeechTalk. I definitely need to spend more time on the training threads ...

Background + some questions specifically related to the initial question & Jason's comment with the 200+ likes & climbing (including his concept from another thread 'buy your last plane 1st'):

--at a very young age my pilot uncle introduced me to flying. When i was old enough to see over the panel he arranged for some instructor time in Sundowners & eventually Sierras so I could get a taste of some complex airtime. If I wasn't hooked before, I was then ... always with an affinity for Beechcraft. Wide open to all things flight related btw, type & brand.

--when I was older and able to pay my own way I did some time at a Cessna flight center. looking back I should have split the time or at least taken a ride in the local Navy Flying Club T-34. Anyway I got enough hours (no record now, maybe that's recoverable, idk) & had demonstrated enough skill to start refining landing techniques & going to alternate fields with the instructor.

--fast forward ~20+ years to Oshkosh 2012 ... 11 days, deep dive, blown away ... reinvigorated.

I want to resume flight training & will do so one way or another ... SOON. The original question is something I have wondered about too. My initial thought has been that a Musketeer/Sundowner/Sierra might make a great 1st aircraft to own ... Other aspirations aside, a Duchess would be a great step up not too far in the future and maybe a low barrier to entry w/the depressed twin market (much read about here & other places).

Then I tripped across some info about the practice of initial training solely in twins, fast track so to speak. WHAT, YOU CAN DO THAT? Apparently so. I have no professional aspirations other than FI ratings to advance my experience, help support my addiction & to be able give back a little.

So now what? I talk to some folks & some local flight schools. The one possibility & hold up after speaking to the owner is insurance for the solo flight ... not covered. So, practically, a NO GO. Everything else they can do & would be glad to take my money. He wasn't that cynical, but that's the reality. They have a Duchess. Also for any single engine flight, I was told all i would need is a check out in any given aircraft. Ok, cool.

So the push-back was I can't solo in the twin at the local place. Idk if calls to insurance companies or other schools to address that one slice of the pie will provide an answer. I know there's an outfit that does twin training at 'your location'. Not sure if they would entertain the idea & solve my problem.

If I could do this, my thought was that though I might pay a premium for those hours (twin) initially, I would be collapsing multiple time-frames and clocking more 'valuable' hours from the outset ... reduced insurance as a potential owner & hitting milestones sooner for the same number of total hours.

FINALLY: Why? Besides the love of all things flight ... I live in Bucks County, PA (KDYL) and commute weekly (stay Mon - Fri) to Westchester County, NY (KHPN). Ultimately I'd like to commute a few weeks a year weather permitting, building hours, increasing over time. Initially, every school I spoke to said they'd incorporate my commute into the lesson. MORE collapsed time-frames (maybe minus the dead-head $$'s of course). I'm no money bags but an out of the box thinker w/big dreams. I'm gonna repost this in introductions because that's me in a nutshell. Thanks in advance for your consideration.
-Tony

Welcome!

I don't have any specific advice on the twin insurance for pre-PPL solo flight angle, other than to state: if you're doing it to save time, fine. If you're doing it to save money, forget about it. Get your private in a single, then maybe immediately jump to a twin for your instrument rating work. I don't think a student pilot is likely to be near as safe in a twin as in a single, it's a fair amount more to "process" initially, and the hourly rate is much, much higher (no doubt in part due to the lower demand/annual utilization and high insurance for flight school twins, so you could avoid that issue if you owned it).

As for using your commute time to lower the costs: also forget about it. Yes, you should absolutely flight that route (and back) in training, maybe multiple times, but I don't like the idea of you getting out at the midpoint, working a week and then flying home. Firstly, you'll be paying the two dead-head legs and obviously not learning anything on them. Second, it drifts towards a grey-area "part 134 and a half" zone of questions whether the FBO is running an illegal charter operation. Third, you're going to be tired on the way home and maybe distracted on the way there, plus, you'll be 5 days between lessons. None of those are good things.

On the very, very strong plus side, that would teach you a lot about aeronautical decision making, because you'll be trying to use a light airplane for purposeful travel on a schedule. That's a particularly risky arena and an area where most private pilots get their license without ever learning a lick of practical information about. A lot of pilots come to grief later on because they never adequately learned ADM.

Best of luck. I'd train, solo and test in a single, then consider switching to a twin for instrument training if a twin is your end goal. Before you jump there, please learn whether a high-performance single will better accomplish your missions. For many people, especially if payload and room aren't the limiting factors, a high-performance single will do the job just as well, if not better, especially if funds are less than abundant.

Many thanks for your comprehensive response. It's definitely about the time saving. I don't know if there is a case for the initial outlay ever paying for itself vs. the more conventional path. I had no intent on this as a means to save on the commute, just an opportunity to build time. Completely understood on the high performance single.

All the best!

You can buy a decent twin for $40k. If you can self insure (even just for solo) then soloing in a twin is practical.

Glad you are working through the process and asking then right questions. First off I am 18 or so months ahead of you (without the twin option).

Don't buy any airplane thinking it's less expensive than renting. Just isn't so. I bought an airplane (Sundowner) to complete my training in. I've had zero mechanical issues so other than annuals and oil changes it's been as easy on the wallet as it could be. Taxes, fuel, hangar fees, insurance, database subscriptions, etc) quickly raise hourly costs above that of renting...

Buy an airplane if you need access WHEN YOU WANT IT, flying something that others haven't beaten to death, and if you have a reserve fund equal to half the purchase price of the plane.

I'm starting my IFR training and I hope it allows me to commute via my magic carpet a little more, so far I've had to scrub and drive about 50% of my flights.

Things that you should consider:
1) budget enough to fly 2-3x per week for retention purposes.
2) go get your medical out of the way NOW - I've seen this slow down several procrastinators
3) fly in a couple of the FBOs planes and see how comfortable you are with the workload with different aircraft.

Good Luck!

Keep us up to date.

Peace,
Don

Tony,

Nice to meet you. There are a number of us from KDYL who hang here. Let us know if we can help.

I know the Pilot Association at Doylestown is pretty active (and the president is a hell of a guy). There is a safety seminar and pancake breakfast at KDYL April 26th. The Doylestown Open house is scheduled for May 31st. Hanging with other pilots is a great way to round out your experience and hear some great stories that will increase your knowledge of aviation (some are even true). We have a student dues rate, too.

So, please introduce yourself at the next event. Send me a PM if have any questions you think I can answer.

--paul

Welcome Tony, love the photo you attached!

Welcome to BT Tony. You'll find lots of great people here, and an incredible wealth of knowledge!

This addiction is maddening! I continue to read, lurk & learn ...

Given everything above (THANKS ALL) & that I have been contemplating above all others the GA-7 Cougar as my entry into ownership/licensing ... is a T-Bone something to consider, especially in the price range I'm looking? ... last plane 1st? Well, last for a lot longer ...

Posting to Twin Bonanza section as well ...

Agreed. Do not buy an airplane to save money. Buy an airplane because you want one. If you do the former, you will regret it... If you don't do the latter, you will regret it.