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18 Oct 2017, 16:17 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


DShannon Aviation (banner)



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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2017, 14:54 
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Joined: 02/14/09
Posts: 5366
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Company: tomdrew.lawyer
Location: Des Moines, IA (KDSM)
Aircraft: 1973 Baron E55
^^^^^ Matthew, nothing better than an honest, humble pilot. I would let my grand daughter fly with you right now, no problem. :thumbup: :clap:

_________________
AOPA Panel Atty 28yr.
C340A/8KCAB
F33C/E55 Baron
Past 12 Months:C340A Initial, IPC/BFR, CFII Renewal


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2017, 15:15 
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Joined: 07/16/14
Posts: 40
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Company: Amtec Control Integration Co.
Location: Neeses SC
Aircraft: G36TN
Thanks to everyone who replied. And Matt, I appreciate you honest opinion. Someone mentioned risk-reward. The reward would be I could grab my luggage and walk 20' to my front door vs. landing 8 minutes away and having to get ground transportation the last 20 miles. Is that or should that be a factor. Not for me.

The main thing for me is I go to the Keys to relax and enjoy myself. It sounds that even if I'm a comfortable as I can get with the 58P, there will still be anxiety on arrival and when I depart. Kinda like looking at the weather a few days before departure and having it linger in the back of your mind that it may be unsafe. I don't won't to worry. I go to the lower latitudes to get away from that.

Hearing from the owners who have flown the 58P a lot was great. That's what the board is about. Thank you. I heard most of them even say themselves, that with their level of confidence, it's risky but doable. Thank you again. You may have kept another pilot out of the weeds. :bud:

Future 55 owner,

Craig


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2017, 15:56 
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Joined: 12/22/09
Posts: 751
Post Likes: +88
Location: Bend, OR
Aircraft: 1976 Baron 58P
Just for another data point. I came back to Bend today from Orcas. Dangerous approach in that I was doing it IFR but there were students in the pattern. Barely VFR at 4 miles viz although it's worse on the approach looking down. I didn't see the numbers until a 2 mile final.

Meanwhile there are 4 planes in the pattern and I'm straining to see them, looking left and right, checking the gear down a few times.

Bottom line... I came in hot. Probably 10 knots too fast and it took me 3500 feet to get down and stopped.

That's why I only go under 3000 feet in special circumstances.


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2017, 16:11 
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Joined: 11/13/11
Posts: 194
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Location: Westlake Village, CA (KCMA)
Aircraft: 58P
Username Protected wrote:
Probably 10 knots too fast and it took me 3500 feet to get down and stopped.

That matches my experience... 5kts = 500ft. I now have an alpha systems aoa hud and it really helps in hitting the correct speed over the fence every time.

Doug


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2017, 16:20 
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Joined: 12/11/15
Posts: 253
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Location: Boca Raton, FL(KBCT)
Aircraft: Baron58P TJ488
the choice of a Baron58P is excellent, but the decision to fly in and out of 2500 is not a good one. Even a seasoned Baron58P pilot would have to be absolutely on his numbers and full skill level to do this flight. I suggest you buy the aircraft and select another runway. Take plenty of flight instruction as these air heavy airplanes that fly like heavy airplanes! they need power on landings and long runways for departure.


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2017, 17:17 
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Joined: 03/30/10
Posts: 309
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Company: Parker Flight Training
Location: GeorgetownAustin TX, TX (KGTU)
Aircraft: 1982 Baron 58P
As most of the regular readers here know, I do a lot of initial training in the 58P. The airplane has a heavier wing loading than any of the other Barons and also has very powerful brakes, so powerful that it's fairly easy to blow a tire with vigorous brake application.

I recommend to my customers that they operate from at least 5,000 ft of hard surface runway. There are several reasons for this suggestion. First, the reason most of us prefer twins is the added safety of the second engine. Fields that do not provide reasonable accelerate-stop and accelerate-go margins take away considerable safety. Second, it's not reasonable for most of us who may fly only once or twice a month to be on top of our game for every takeoff and landing. That is simply asking for trouble.

I would consider operating a 58P from a field of less than 3,000 ft. as a "once in a great while" event, alone, with minimum safe fuel, and on a reasonably cool day or with a significant head wind.

Just my tuppence worth from training some 20 58P pilots.

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www.ParkerFlightTraining.com
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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2017, 18:29 
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Joined: 12/22/09
Posts: 751
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Location: Bend, OR
Aircraft: 1976 Baron 58P
Thanks for your thoughtful reply Gerry.

That's more than a tuppence. That's a thruppence!


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2017, 19:03 
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Joined: 01/18/11
Posts: 4521
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Location: Lake Marion, SC KOGB
Aircraft: B60 Duke
I have never flown a Pbaron, do they really use more ground than a Duke?


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2017, 19:30 
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Joined: 11/29/13
Posts: 746
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Location: KRMN
Aircraft: Baron 58P
Username Protected wrote:
^^^^^ Matthew, nothing better than an honest, humble pilot. I would let my grand daughter fly with you right now, no problem. :thumbup: :clap:


Thanks Tom---Much appreciated and I would be honored to be able to fly your Granddaughter around with your approval---says a lot. I love the 58P and it will be very useful to me and my family but it is very different than your average light/medium twin and as I am learning, that has to be respected if you want to stay alive. :thumbup:

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2017, 19:34 
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Joined: 11/29/13
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Location: KRMN
Aircraft: Baron 58P
Username Protected wrote:
Bottom line... I came in hot. Probably 10 knots too fast and it took me 3500 feet to get down and stopped.


I am finding it does not take much to eat a lot of runway very quickly-----this is compounded when on short fields!! Thanks for the confirmation :cheers: :cheers:


Matt


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 09 Sep 2017, 00:23 
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Joined: 10/05/09
Posts: 62
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Location: Portland, Oregon
Username Protected wrote:
Thanks to everyone who replied. And Matt, I appreciate you honest opinion. Someone mentioned risk-reward. The reward would be I could grab my luggage and walk 20' to my front door vs. landing 8 minutes away and having to get ground transportation the last 20 miles. Is that or should that be a factor. Not for me.

The main thing for me is I go to the Keys to relax and enjoy myself. It sounds that even if I'm a comfortable as I can get with the 58P, there will still be anxiety on arrival and when I depart. Kinda like looking at the weather a few days before departure and having it linger in the back of your mind that it may be unsafe. I don't won't to worry. I go to the lower latitudes to get away from that.

Hearing from the owners who have flown the 58P a lot was great. That's what the board is about. Thank you. I heard most of them even say themselves, that with their level of confidence, it's risky but doable. Thank you again. You may have kept another pilot out of the weeds. :bud:

Future 55 owner,

Craig


Craig, if you don't want to give up on a pressurized plane, you might look at the Cessna P337. It is the best short field P twin, mostly because of its low stall speed and lighter weight. Only really seats 4, but it is a roomy 4 seater and will cost less to own than any other P twin. Not as fast a P Baron, but easy to fly and less expensive to purchase. It doesn't get the respect it deserves in my opinion, it is a 5 hour plus reserves plane that will do 185kts on 24gph total LOP in the mid to high teens. Because you sit ahead of the wing, the outward visibility is excellent as well. Just a thought........


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 09 Sep 2017, 20:41 
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Joined: 04/17/13
Posts: 129
Post Likes: +22
Location: Ketchum, ID
Aircraft: Baron 58P
I'm with Gerry. Less than 3000' is a once in a while thing. I occasionally go in and out of Palo Alto, which is 2443' but has settlement just beyond the touchdown point that requires you wait until you're past to get on the brakes (it's built on a landfill). I'm always looking at all the variables such as wind, how much fuel I need for the next stop, etc.

The 58P is a great airplane.


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017, 05:56 
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Joined: 01/05/11
Posts: 77
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Aircraft: 1969 Aerostar 600
Interesting day yesterday. This thread prompted me to do something I never really thought of doing before. Namely, finding out how short of a runway do I really need in my current configuration. I fly an Aerostar 600A (NA) with wing extensions, winglets and (6 puck) big brakes. In four consecutive landings I was able to set the plane down to full stop in less than 1,500'. Airport elevation 900' msl, ground temp 20 degrees C. I was about 500 lbs. under gross with about a 4 knot head wind, 90 to 95 knots over the numbers and no 50' obstacle. While I had to pay attention, it really was not that difficult. All that being said, I really would not want to do this on a regular basis. There's just not that much room for error and I would guess the continuous hard braking could take it's toll on the tires and frame. None the less, it was an interesting experiment. :peace:


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017, 07:51 
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Joined: 10/08/16
Posts: 47
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Aircraft: C55
I attended the AOPA Fly-In in Norman, OK this past Saturday. A Pilatus PC-12 joined in the STOL competition, which was performed on an ad-hoc, unimproved strip of grass beside one of the runways. Despite the uneven terrain the Pilatus consistently took off and landed in less than 1,000 feet. I'm not suggesting you buy one, but it was an impressive sight to behold....Super Cub, Super Cub, Maule, Super Cub, Pilatus.


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017, 08:31 
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Joined: 02/17/08
Posts: 10697
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Company: Orion Endeavors Inc.
Location: Gulf Shores, AL (KJKA)
Aircraft: 1982 Baron 58P
Username Protected wrote:
Interesting day yesterday. This thread prompted me to do something I never really thought of doing before. Namely, finding out how short of a runway do I really need in my current configuration. I fly an Aerostar 600A (NA) with wing extensions, winglets and (6 puck) big brakes. In four consecutive landings I was able to set the plane down to full stop in less than 1,500'. Airport elevation 900' msl, ground temp 20 degrees C. I was about 500 lbs. under gross with about a 4 knot head wind, 90 to 95 knots over the numbers and no 50' obstacle. While I had to pay attention, it really was not that difficult. All that being said, I really would not want to do this on a regular basis. There's just not that much room for error and I would guess the continuous hard braking could take it's toll on the tires and frame. None the less, it was an interesting experiment. :peace:


Very similar numbers to the P Baron for those conditions.


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