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18 Oct 2017, 16:16 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 13:32 
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Company: Amtec Control Integration Co.
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I am beginning to look at a 58P as my next plane. A typical flight would be depart full fuel, 350 lbs of pilot and passenger, and about 75 lbs of luggage. I would fly 527 miles and land at a 2550' long paved strip at sea level (assume no wind). I would depart with remaining fuel on a 80 degree morning with no wind and then stop to pick fuel up in Marathon, Florida for flight home to South Carolina. In reading Beechtalk and looking at the performance charts it's anywhere from won't happen to not a problem. Looking for some real world experiences on 58P owners who fly them on a regular basis. I'm a 1000 hour pilot with 200+ multi time and wouldn't even think about it until 20+ hours training with emphasis on short field work. What you think ?
Craig


Last edited on 07 Sep 2017, 13:58, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 13:39 
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If you're talking about Summerland, FL, note that's 2500' with displaced thresholds, so it might play even shorter than 2500 normally would. It's all about the obstructions when you're talking about a 2500' strip. Unobstructed, it's probably OK (though you won't have anything close to a balanced field).

I also see the manager name is Matt S. I wonder if that's the same Matt S from BT?

As you consider moving up to a 58P, you need to break the mindset of "depart with full tanks always". That's 190 usable on most 58Ps and might be 50 gallons or 300# more fuel than you need for this mission.


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 13:54 
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Username Protected wrote:
If you're talking about Summerland, FL, note that's 2500' with displaced thresholds, so it might play even shorter than 2500 normally would. It's all about the obstructions when you're talking about a 2500' strip. Unobstructed, it's probably OK (though you won't have anything close to a balanced field).

I also see the manager name is Matt S. I wonder if that's the same Matt S from BT?

As you consider moving up to a 58P, you need to break the mindset of "depart with full tanks always". That's 190 usable on most 58Ps and might be 50 gallons or 300# more fuel than you need for this mission.


Yes, good point. The usual runway is 12 which is indeed displaced 359 feet for a landing length of 2191. The displaced threshold takes the obstruction out of play for the most part but it is indeed still there. On the departure they should not be a factor. So instead of saying depart tanks full, we can make it 1 hour reserves on arrival if that works better.

And yes, it's the same Matt. He's my neighbor up the street. Good guy. I feel certain he's busy preparing for the hurricane. I did mine last week thank goodness.

Craig


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 14:03 
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Company: Orion Endeavors Inc.
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A very skilled P Baron pilot, with engines in good shape, might do this. You will not be sufficiently skilled for several months, and a lot of practice, to make you proficient at landings and takeoff from this field. The plane will do it in the hands of a knowledgeable pilot willing to forgo accelerate/go, accelerate/stop and landing distances. No obstructions should exist for approach or departure. Note that calculated landing distance will be within a 100' of available runway length with no wind. It would be advisable to depart with less than full fuel to keep your landing and takeoff weights and distances down.

I believe 58P owner Jim B. operated out of a short strip (2600') for a few years. He will hopefully chime in with his experience and methodology. I understand he has less hair, and less dark colored hair now. ;)

Note my use of 'might' in the first sentence. I would add that many P Baron pilots would not do this regularly. I would suggest you look instead at a C, D, or E55 because they will have significantly better short field performance.

Edit: My comments are predicated on the stated length of 2500'. At 2200' at would suggest a visit to a psychiatrist before each flight.


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 14:09 
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Also, I should have been more explicit: I would not be comfortable doing this as the risk-reward isn't there for me. Land and park at KMTH would be my approach (no pun intended).

For me, 3000' is sit up straight and be on your game time. 2500' with displaced thresholds on both ends doesn't pencil out for me as I plan to be in this game for 30 more years' of flying without hurting anyone.


Last edited on 07 Sep 2017, 14:10, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 14:10 
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Username Protected wrote:
A very skilled P Baron pilot, with engines in good shape, might do this. You will not be sufficiently skilled for several months, and a lot of practice, to make you proficient at landings and takeoff from this field. The plane will do it in the hands of a knowledgeable pilot willing to forgo accelerate/go, accelerate/stop and landing distances. No obstructions should exist for approach or departure. Note that calculated landing distance will be within a 100' of available runway length with no wind. It would be advisable to depart with less than full fuel to keep your landing and takeoff weights and distances down.

I believe 58P owner Jim B. operated out of a short strip (2600') for a few years. He will hopefully chime in with his experience and methodology. I understand he has less hair, and less dark colored hair now. ;)

Note my use of 'might' in the first sentence. I would add that many P Baron pilots would not do this regularly. I would suggest you look instead at a C, D, or E55 because they will have significantly better short field performance.

Edit: My comments are predicated on the stated length of 2500'. At 2200' at would suggest a visit to a psychiatrist before each flight.


Departure weight would be the same landing weight ie no fuel loaded aboard.

Craig


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 14:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
Also, I should have been more explicit: I would not be comfortable doing this as the risk-reward isn't there for me. Land and park at KMTH would be my approach (no pun intended).

For me, 3000' is sit up straight and be on your game time. 2500' with displaced thresholds on both ends doesn't pencil out for me as I plan to be in this game for 30 more years' of flying without hurting anyone.


This is the kind of feedback based on experience I am looking for.

Thanks Jim and Don.


Last edited on 07 Sep 2017, 15:07, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 14:15 
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That is what I assumed. Not knowing how much fuel was needed to reach your fuel point, plus reserve, constrained how much less should be onboard at departure to keep landing distance down.

That was before I posted and learned that there was not really 2500' available. Hence my edit.


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 14:19 
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If you want a Beech twin, this is the kind of mission a 55 was born for.


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 14:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
For me, 3000' is sit up straight and be on your game time. 2500' with displaced thresholds on both ends doesn't pencil out for me as I plan to be in this game for 30 more years' of flying without hurting anyone.

Agree with Jim... 3000' is be on your game time. Even 4000' if the approach has wires or other obstructions.

I use a 2800' runway from time to time but it has no obstruction issues and I do it solo with the lightest fuel load possible. I wouldn't consider anything shorter based on my current hours in a 58P (~400).

Doug


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 14:31 
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Username Protected wrote:
If you want a Beech twin, this is the kind of mission a 55 was born for.



No..had a Beech twin. Looking for pressurization.

Craig


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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 14:42 
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Flew one for many years and agree with Jim an Don. The P-Baron is a bit draggy for a short strip. I also used 4,000 paved as my choice as to where to go. Having said that, I did go into some shorter runways and some well prepared grass, but one had to be on top of their game and if anything went wrong on departure, your options would be very limited.
Departed Gaston's a couple times and had to lift off and accelerate over the farmer's field that followed the strip before reaching blue line with two folks on board and 1/2 fuel on a hot day. Would have been really bad if an engine failed during that period.

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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 14:43 
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Username Protected wrote:
If you want a Beech twin, this is the kind of mission a 55 was born for.



No..had a Beech twin. Looking for pressurization.

Craig

Pressurization is great (I hear). Just look for a safer airport.
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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 14:51 
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Given the specific parameters, you will be very light on arrival and departure. So yes, I think it is quite doable once you have some time in type. A headwind on landing/departure will make it fairly easy.

However my comments are based on my plane with winglets, which lowers stall a bit. (About to be my ex-plane. :sad: )

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 Post subject: Re: 58P - Would you fly this mission ?
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 15:05 
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Flew one for many years

Hi Dave,

I have your old 58P. Great airplane and I'm loving it!

Best,

Doug


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