I have had my CFI for a year but I have never exercised it so to speak. I have the throwover yoke and I know I need a waiver from the FSDO I guess. Has anyone done this that can shed light on process? If I sell my plane I was wondering if I can offer an insurance check out without it?

I thought I read the FAA has relaxed the requirement for having a dual yoke for training.

Russ

As Russ mentioned, the FAA has published a NPRM that if adopted, will revise the regs to allow flight instruction in throw-over yoke airplanes, with some restrictions such as the pilot needs to have a current BFR, etc.

It will probably take several months or a year before it becomes law.

In the meantime, waivers are often granted; check with ABS and they can probably refer you to somebody that has done it. But the approval process may take a while.

-TH

Micheal,

I wouldn't contact the FSDO about it. Just talk with you instructor or whoever might do your check ride and ask them if they have a problem. I have never had a problem with my throwover.

Maybe things have changed recently, but I am personally aware of one instructor that received a violation for instructing (aircraft check out) with a single yoke after the student did a hard landing with damage to the airplane a few years ago....

There was a raging thread on the Red Board a while back. One guy was saying he's never needed a waiver because no one asked to see one. Therefore, he thought that made it legal.

And they ask me why I drink...

Rick,

It wasn't for me to receive instruction, I was going to give instruction. If I sell my plane or if I were to take on a partner I wondered if I could sign off on the instruction without the dual yoke mainly for insurance purposes. I thought I needed the waiver to "instruct" in the plane such as for an additional rating but I wasn't sure if I could check someone out or legally sign it off as dual.

As Russ mentioned, the FAA has published a NPRM that if adopted, will revise the regs to allow flight instruction in throw-over yoke airplanes, with some restrictions such as the pilot needs to have a current BFR, etc.

It will probably take several months or a year before it becomes law.

In the meantime, waivers are often granted; check with ABS and they can probably refer you to somebody that has done it. But the approval process may take a while.

-TH

Rick,

It wasn't for me to receive instruction, I was going to give instruction. If I sell my plane or if I were to take on a partner I wondered if I could sign off on the instruction without the dual yoke mainly for insurance purposes. I thought I needed the waiver to "instruct" in the plane such as for an additional rating but I wasn't sure if I could check someone out or legally sign it off as dual.

Thanks Rick, I was going to look the answer up but I have to admit getting my answer from the forum here is a lot more fun.

This is from the ABS website in part:
ABS frequently gets questions about the legality of flight instruction in airplanes with a single control yoke. Here’s the applicable Federal Air Regulation, with emphasis added:§ 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and certain flight tests.(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft…that is being used for flight instruction unless that aircraft has fully functioning dual controls. However, instrument flight instruction may be given in a single-engine airplane equipped with a single, functioning throwover control wheel in place of fixed, dual controls of the elevator and ailerons when—
(1) The instructor has determined that the flight can be conducted safely; and
(2) The person manipulating the controls has at least a private pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings.


FAA interpretation, enforcement action and some insurance claims history consistently rule that a Flight Review as required in 61.56 consists of “flight instruction,” and therefore dual flight controls must be installed. There is no room for interpretation requiring dual controls for any other instruction not specifically limited to “instrument” instruction, for example, instruction toward currency requirements, high-performance and/or complex endorsements, pilot certificates or ratings, and insurance-mandated checkout instruction (for purposes of meeting insurance underwriters’ policy stipulations).


Single-Control Exemptions
Confirming this interpretation, the FAA provides for exemptions to FAR 91.109(a) permitting flight instruction in single-control airplanes under certain circumstances. Exemptions require both pilot and instructor be qualified to act as pilot-in-command, precluding some types of training, including initial checkouts if the pilot receiving instruction does not already have his/her Complex and High Performance endorsements.

ABS’ training partner BPPP, Inc. holds an exemption that allows instruction in single-control single and multiengine Beechcraft, but only when such training is done in a regularly scheduled BPPP event (see www.bppp.org). BPPP's exemption is also subject to the requirement that both student and instructor be qualified to act as PIC.


A few individual instructors have successfully petitioned the FAA for single-control exemptions valid for instruction in single-control airplanes outside of BPPP events. Instructors wishing a single-control exemption must apply to the FAA at this address:

Petition for Exemption
Rules Docket (AGC-10)
Federal Aviation Administration
800 Independence Avenue SW
Washington, DC 20591

Thanks Tony

Thanks Tony

I asked my local Transport Canada examiner if he would do an IFR ride in a single yoke Baron or Bo. His quick response was NO.

A few yr. ago, I believe it was back in the early nineties, a father and son were killed taking off from Kremling, CO, in a Bonanza with a throw-over. The son was checking the father out, or perhaps giving him lessons, that I do not recall, but they stalled on upwind.

People with single yokes wanting to receive or give dual are good news for some CFIs as I don't do it and it's more work for them!

AFaIK, here in the US, checkrides have always required a dual yoke as well.

I'm not convinced that the single yoke was a significant factor in that accident. I can fly a Bonanza from the opposite side of the throw-over yoke fairly easy, the only complication being a fight with the elevator while trying to adjust the trim a long ways.

The proposed change to the regs is in this NPRM (pdf). That NPRM contains several significant changes to parts 61 and 91. Here's the relevant section:

(7) Proposal to expand the use of an airplane with a single, functioning throwover control wheel for providing certain kinds of flight training and checking.

The FAA proposes to revise §91.109(a) to allow for use of an airplane with a single, functioning throwover control wheel for conducting flight instruction. We also propose to revise $91.109(b)(3) to allow for the use of an airplane with a single, functioning throwover control wheel for conducting a flight review, performing recent flight experience, instrument flight experience, and instrument competency checks.

Existing §91.109(a) provides for conducting instrument flight instruction in a single engine airplane with a single, functioning throwover control wheel. Existing §91.109(b)(3) provides for using a single engine airplane with a single, functioning throwover control wheel during simulated instrument flight.

Since August 30, 1993, the FAA has issued several grants of exemption and extensions. These grants of exemption allow instructors to provide recurrent flight training and simulated instrument flight training in certain aircraft, such as, Beechcraft Barons, Bonanzas, Debonairs, and Travel Air that are equipped with a single, functioning throwover control wheel for the purpose of meeting the recency of experience requirements and flight review contained in §§61.56(a), (b), and (f) and 61.57(e)(1) and (2). This proposal would amend §91.109(a) and (b)(3) to incorporate the conditions and limitations that are stated in those grants of exemption.

I glanced through the various comments, saw nothing of grave consequence.

What happens next?

I have one of those waivers which I obtained by filing the request as described in the ABS information sheet. The exemption is valid for 2 years.

There are several limitations including that the pilot seated in the left seat be qualified in every respect and serve as PIC during the entire flight. I must have given 25 hours of instruction in the airplane involved and that the flight instruction be limited to that required by 61.56 and 61.57 flight review, and recency of experience.

The reason I obtained the waiver was to do Flight Reviews. The other use would be aircraft checkouts or insurance requirements. The PIC in the left seat has to have all the endorsements already completed and a current flight review.

The actual flying is another matter. I to used to think I was pretty good at flying from the right seat with the throw over wheel. I have done a fair amount of instrument instruction from the right seat of a bonanza with the throw over wheel.

After one try at using the waiver to do a checkout, I have re-thought the situation and would not use the waiver unless I was REALLY sure about the guy in the left seats abilities. Think gusty crosswind... What in a normal airplane might be a little help with an aileron is not as easy as I thought.

One wing tip with the waiver, trouble, without the waiver, toast. 91.109 is pretty clear about what you have to have.

Jack Seubert