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02 Nov 2025, 23:46 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: CJ1 vs. CJ3 vs. Phenom
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012, 14:34 
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The market is such that I'm going to make a move soon and jets seem to be the best choice for me because why not?

I know a lot about the 3 jets I'm posting about. The CJ3 is a bit of a stretch in terms that its more than I really need but I'm a "buy your last airplane first" kinda guy. CJ3 leaves nothing to step up too as its about the largest single pilot option out there. I'll never buy bigger as I never want to fly with a guy in the right seat.

I flew a Phenom the other day and loved it. I love that it has a G1000. I love the ramp presence. I thought it was awesome but I worry about serviceability.

The CJ1 seems the easiest step and it would handle 95% of my missions but I fear it would leave me wanting something else in a short period of time.

Any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: CJ1 vs. CJ3 vs. Phenom
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012, 14:49 
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The 100 or 300? I think the 300 has significant range/payload advantages over the 100.

FWIW, I have always been a fan of the CJ2.


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 Post subject: Re: CJ1 vs. CJ3 vs. Phenom
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012, 15:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
I flew a Phenom the other day and loved it. I love that it has a G1000. I love the ramp presence. I thought it was awesome but I worry about serviceability.


I wouldn't worry too much about that - neither engines nor avionics are proprietary to the Phenom. Embraer has made a huge investment in their bizjet service network including opening a factory in Florida.

Ask Neal Schwartz to put you in touch with his buddies at jetAVIVA if you want to learn more about Phenom ownership.


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 Post subject: Re: CJ1 vs. CJ3 vs. Phenom
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012, 15:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
The market is such that I'm going to make a move soon and jets seem to be the best choice for me because why not?

I know a lot about the 3 jets I'm posting about. The CJ3 is a bit of a stretch in terms that its more than I really need but I'm a "buy your last airplane first" kinda guy. CJ3 leaves nothing to step up too as its about the largest single pilot option out there. I'll never buy bigger as I never want to fly with a guy in the right seat.

I flew a Phenom the other day and loved it. I love that it has a G1000. I love the ramp presence. I thought it was awesome but I worry about serviceability.

The CJ1 seems the easiest step and it would handle 95% of my missions but I fear it would leave me wanting something else in a short period of time.

Any thoughts?


Take a hard look at Payload, T/O, Landing, and Range numbers - especially in the CJ1 on hot days.

Sounds Fun!

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 Post subject: Re: CJ1 vs. CJ3 vs. Phenom
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012, 15:34 
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Username Protected wrote:
The 100 or 300? I think the 300 has significant range/payload advantages over the 100.

FWIW, I have always been a fan of the CJ2.

100

While the 300 is comparable to the CJ3, it's a lot more money as its much newer.


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 Post subject: Re: CJ1 vs. CJ3 vs. Phenom
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012, 15:38 
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Joined: 12/16/09
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How about the M2?

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 Post subject: Re: CJ1 vs. CJ3 vs. Phenom
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012, 15:41 
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How about the M2?

Because the used market is in the toilet and I'm talking "new used". :D


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 Post subject: Re: CJ1 vs. CJ3 vs. Phenom
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012, 15:48 
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gotcha. well....i've gotta say sticking with a garmin equipped airplane would be nice since that's what you're coming out of.

sooo, maybe a Citation I-SP Stallion with a G1000 :whistle:

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 Post subject: Re: CJ1 vs. CJ3 vs. Phenom
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012, 15:52 
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Joined: 04/16/10
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Well so much for the Turbine Bonanza ;) , these are in a different league all together. Happy shopping and post pics..


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 Post subject: Re: CJ1 vs. CJ3 vs. Phenom
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012, 16:00 
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Joined: 05/23/08
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Nice move.
Phenom 100 is sweet, a friend of mine as one, he came out of a Piper Jetprop DLX.

For your short flights a Mustang would work also. 3 TBM guys I know moved to the Mustang in the last year, aquisition was cheaper than an 850 but their fuel bill is higher.


Marc

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 Post subject: Re: CJ1 vs. CJ3 vs. Phenom
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012, 16:05 
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Phenom 100 all the way.. it's new, and you get a functional Potty!

It'll be the cheapest of the bunch to operate, easiest to fly single pilot.

Lowest operating cost of the group, not sure if the fastest, but the most room for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: CJ1 vs. CJ3 vs. Phenom
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012, 16:07 
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Username Protected wrote:
Phenom 100 all the way.. it's new, and you get a functional Potty!

It'll be the cheapest of the bunch to operate, easiest to fly single pilot.

Lowest operating cost of the group, not sure if the fastest, but the most room for sure.

Do the 2009-2010 models all have the potty? Or is it that they don't all have a door as opposed to a curtain?

The Phenom sales guy had some good answers as to why a new one was $1M more than a 2 year old model. Then I heard that the 2009-2010 models sold for that much lower price originally.


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 Post subject: Re: CJ1 vs. CJ3 vs. Phenom
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012, 16:29 
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Joined: 04/06/08
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Here's the missing link:

The brand new jets don't have secondary suppliers for the incredibly expensive airframe parts, etc. Forget used....doesn't exist. New parts cost a fortune and you have a single source to rely on.

Another way to see if you can stomach for the real costs is get a bid from TapElite and ProParts(or similar), and have first hand knowledge of the motor and parts programs. Read the contract about your hourly requirements. You can't run out of money and sit in the hangar. If you don't fly enough every 90 days, you loose all you invested in the program. You had better be able to fund the REAL annual costs, and you have to be able to write the check on January 1, 'cause it's gone!

When you get you arms around the payments for each hr. flown, you'll then be able to decide if you're really in the game.


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 Post subject: Re: CJ1 vs. CJ3 vs. Phenom
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012, 16:33 
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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Username Protected wrote:
Here's the missing link:

The brand new jets don't have secondary suppliers for the incredibly expensive airframe parts, etc. Forget used....doesn't exist. New parts cost a fortune and you have a single source to rely on.

Another way to see if you can stomach for the real costs is get a bid from TapElite and ProParts, and have first hand knowledge of the motor and parts programs. Read the contract about your hourly requirements. You can't run out of money and sit in the hangar. If you don't fly enough every 90 days, you loose all you invested in the program. You had better be able to fund the REAL annual costs, and you have to be able to write the check on January 1, 'cause it's gone!

When you get you arms around the payments for each hr. flown, you'll then be able to decide if you're really in the game.

There are a lot of low time 6-7-8 year old CJ's for sale that are on TAP Elite and Cesscom. How do they do it?


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 Post subject: Re: CJ1 vs. CJ3 vs. Phenom
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2012, 16:39 
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Joined: 12/16/09
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no direct experience here so i really have no idea....however, perhaps since the citation has been around so long, there are a lot of non factory PMA parts available (similar to the King Air)?

I think it's pretty exciting though, this talk of a light jet. Very cool stuff. :thumbup:

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